What if question---US was invaded?

**LiquidNazgul** · 16 Jan 08,, 00:09

This may or may not have been the best forum to post this in, but this forum seems to be the best to post it in.

Anyway, I just want your guys' opinion on the topic title---it probably won't happen for a while, but what, and how, would the US be invaded? It's probably going to happen at least once (and by invaded I mean actually invaded---as in, say, Hitler conquering Europe). I can't be sure if the invasion would succeed, fail, or be forced to a stalemate, but either way---I think at first, we wouldn't no what on earth to do except look to our guns and hope for the best.

Consider this that, the invasion occurred at, say, the year 2020-2030---by then I'm sure most nations have found some sort of way to shield themselves from WMDs, so nukes would be rendered obsolete---conventional warfare would be the new thing. Say, Tom Clancy's upcoming game---EndWar.
You guys might think this idea is still within the realms of fiction and games, but---well---no nation stays untouched forever. And what with Pearl Harbor happening, and---dare I say it---9/11---well...it speaks for itself.

**zraver** · 16 Jan 08,, 01:27

We'd give them our low paying jobs, oh wait.... thats already happening.

allowing for some mighty powerful handwavium that lets an enemy get a an army big enough for a sustained invasion to our shore. There are still more guns than Americans and almost as many sources of explosive or flammable materials. Also because or urban sprawl most major transportation hubs are surrounded by civilian dwellings providing a ready see of fishes for the American insurgents to reside.

Granted an insurgency alone cannot win a war vs a ruthless conventional army. But when those insurgents work with and support regular army, national guard forces and police forces.

**~~Feanor~~** · 16 Jan 08,, 01:49

New member; welcome. I'd recommend you fill out your public profile and make an introduction threat in the appropriate forum.

**LiquidNazgul** · 16 Jan 08,, 02:22

Yeah, I'll probably do that, don't want to look like a complete retard -_-

**Donnie** · 16 Jan 08,, 04:56

who would want to invade the US? Any future invasions will be over natural resources, water, gas, oil. The US has used thiers to capacity, no sense to invade. I see a more likley scenario of the US invading Canada for its fresh water.

**gunnut** · 16 Jan 08,, 05:01

Right now, even without the US Navy's interference, no nation has enough transportation capability to ship an army here and then keeping it alive to fight.

Think about it, where will this army get food, water, fuel, ammo, medicine, reinforcement, and heavy equipment to sustain a fight?

I recently played a game called World In Conflict which did the "what if" scenario. What if, in 1989, the Cold War turned hot and the Soviet forces landed in Seattle using container ships to slip past the US Navy? This already assumed a full scale conventional war in Europe to tie down most of our forces.

Playing that game I realized that it could not, and cannot happen. All those tanks need diesel. All those men need food and water. A modern army burns through tons of fuel and ammo in just hours. No fuel, no ammo, no fight.

Of course, how would an invading army even occupy this country? Nothing is centralized. I can tell you here in sounthern California you can drive from north to south between 2 counties, 100 miles of urban sprawl. I'm not kidding. There is no break in between the cities. And the population concentration is not that great. It just doesn't end. If you think our military has problem occupying Iraq, think about an invading army that has to deal with an area 20 times as large.

**Donnie** · 16 Jan 08,, 05:35

Originally Posted by gunnut

Right now, even without the US Navy's interference, no nation has enough transportation capability to ship an army here and then keeping it alive to fight.

Think about it, where will this army get food, water, fuel, ammo, medicine, reinforcement, and heavy equipment to sustain a fight?

I recently played a game called World In Conflict which did the "what if" scenario. What if, in 1989, the Cold War turned hot and the Soviet forces landed in Seattle using container ships to slip past the US Navy? This already assumed a full scale conventional war in Europe to tie down most of our forces.

Playing that game I realized that it could not, and cannot happen. All those tanks need diesel. All those men need food and water. A modern army burns through tons of fuel and ammo in just hours. No fuel, no ammo, no fight.

Of course, how would an invading army even occupy this country? Nothing is centralized. I can tell you here in sounthern California you can drive from north to south between 2 counties, 100 miles of urban sprawl. I'm not kidding. There is no break in between the cities. And the population concentration is not that great. It just doesn't end. If you think our military has problem occupying Iraq, think about an invading army that has to deal with an area 20 times as large.

do you remmember Red Dawn?

The only way to invade the US would be to invade through a neighboring country first, say Mexico, and/or Canada. The army could theoreticaly feed off the land making supply lines irrelevant, pull up to the ol' Sunoco and filler up. But this would have to be a massive undertaking, one that would take years of planning and hundreds of thousands of men, (all the while the US clueless to the massive build up around them) and for what? Plus the US is inhabitated like no other country I can think of, the population is so spread out, you would always be outflanked, with a standing army in every state, I cant see any scenerio where this works.

**LiquidNazgul** · 16 Jan 08,, 05:36

Yes, I have World in Conflict as well---pretty good game.

But take another possibility---similar to Tom Clancy's EndWar game, the fictional world goes through a quite possibly brewing, real servere energy crisis---forcing Europe to federalize---Russia wouldn't have to invade the US for energy, it wouldn't feel the sting of the energy crisis---yet Moscow probably would invade anyway, probably in an attempt to establish authority in North America.
No, I dont think we'll be attacked for our resources. It could be just out of pure hatred.

**Bella** · 16 Jan 08,, 05:48

Not even counting the U.S. military, the United States is the most heavily armed country in the world several times over. There are so many people in the U.S. that own guns, that an invading force not only would have to fight the military, but the locals as well.
If you look at it, there is no other country in the world that can defend itself like the U.S. Sure, China has billions of people to fight if invaded, but not enough guns. They can throw rocks though

.

**gunnut** · 16 Jan 08,, 08:05

Originally Posted by donnie

do you remmember Red Dawn?

The only way to invade the US would be to invade through a neighboring country first, say Mexico, and/or Canada. The army could theoreticaly feed off the land making supply lines irrelevant, pull up to the ol' Sunoco and filler up. But this would have to be a massive undertaking, one that would take years of planning and hundreds of thousands of men, (all the while the US clueless to the massive build up around them) and for what? Plus the US is inhabitated like no other country I can think of, the population is so spread out, you would always be outflanked, with a standing army in every state, I cant see any scenerio where this works.

Living off the land is very dangerous. The bigger your force, the hungerier and thirstier it will be. There will be no fuel for your vehicles. There will be no medicine for your wounded. There will be no ammunition for your guns. After that, it's just a matter of time until you're surrounded and crushed, probably by gun-toting rednecks like me.

**Dreadnought** · 16 Jan 08,, 13:52

IMO, There is not one standing Army (including China and Russia) out there that could invade the U.S.. Main reason...The armed populist. We own more guns then any military has in total. Second reason...We have better public communications systems then most countries that have an Army that sized. Once the population knows then welcome to the Wild West. Think about it.

**VarSity** · 16 Jan 08,, 14:39

There is one side of things that makes the US (in fact all Western countries) vulnerable to attack is our own wealth and high standard of living.

You know this huge population, spread over a vast area you mentioned? Get them to win the war for you.

Basically bomb all the power plans, water and sanitation works. Bomb the crap out of the USAF (given we are talking about an invasion scenario we can say this and the USN don’t exist anymore, because otherwise the US win the war before we get to touch US soil) and simply take control of the not so populated areas where all the food is grown. Stop the food flowing and you win, this wouldn’t actually be that hard in the US I think.

Sit back and watch how 200million fat boy Americans start moaning at their government to get the power back on and get Mc Donald’s open. And think of the security situation when everyone starts to panic buy and flip out because they don’t think they will be able to feed their kids next week (forgetting the kid don’t care as long as you get batteries for his PSP)

You don’t need to control every street imo, because if you have air superiority, you can win a war in the United States. Makes a good argument for more F22’s I think.

As for the armed population, who cares? Don’t go near the cities, and let this armed population work for you as the National Guard and police try to stop these people looting. Control the countryside, dump poison on all the crops and then say to the President “sign this, or let your people starve”

**Officer of Engineers** · 16 Jan 08,, 14:50

Alot easier said than done. How is any army going to survive in North America? This is is one stupid thread.

**GAU-8** · 16 Jan 08,, 15:06

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

This is one stupid thread.

Amen Chimo.

Perhaps the WAB could start a thread where posters could ramble about hypothetical future fantasies in stream of consciousness style--punctuated with maddeningly staccato parenthetical inserts.

I thought "Valley Speak" was--like--a dead language.

**VarSity** · 16 Jan 08,, 16:26

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Alot easier said than done. How is any army going to survive in North America? This is is one stupid thread.

Support of Mexico, or maybe some South American gang.

Looking at it in the context of an attack on any Western country I think its fairly good.

How much damage could 15 men with wire coat hangers do? I say alot should they start shorting out electrical sub stations.
Those things take quite a bit of time to make, and there are only limited spares.

Get 400 soldiers; give them a few thousand dollars a pop and a mission to take a different town/city each to shut down.

I think unconventional warfare can get a lot done in the west.