"Change We Can Believe In" Is Gibberish

Tarek Morgen · 06-21-2008, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dalem

I'd rather discuss items that are real - policies, votes, backgrounds, etc.

Also, it's my opinion that focusing overmuch on, oh, call it an Immediate Rhetoric Moment, really leads to either a) dumbed-down speech, or b) effusively flowery and empty speech. Or a combo. People afraid to say anything or afraid to not say everything.

We all know what Churchill was doing with his "blood, sweat, and tears" and "finest hour" speeches, for instance. Parsing the rhetoric is silly.

Heck, I bet you could parse a fiery, explosive Hitler speech into something that makes him sound like he was advocating daisies and fairy dust.

-dale

There are several videos on youtube and other side where hitler and his way of talking is made fun (contrary of popular believe the way he spoke is not "normal" German or Austrian but a weird not rather small Austrian dialact mixed with a lot of rage and Inferiority complex), or he gets overdubbed talking about weired or stupid things.

glyn · 06-21-2008, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarek Morgen

There are several videos on youtube and other side where hitler and his way of talking is made fun (contrary of popular believe the way he spoke is not "normal" German or Austrian but a weird not rather small Austrian dialact mixed with a lot of rage and Inferiority complex), or he gets overdubbed talking about weired or stupid things.

I know it is rarely mentioned anywhere but it seems servicemen who were presented with gallantry awards by him remarked on his sense of humour, which came as a surprise to them.

ArmchairGeneral · 06-21-2008, 13:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigfella

Sorry AG, I wasn't sure which it was & didn't have time to google it. Took a stab. Oh well.

Yeah, well, on the other side of the wall next to me right now is a museum dedicated to him, and my school is named after him, so he's kind of my homie.

Tarek Morgen · 06-21-2008, 14:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glyn

I know it is rarely mentioned anywhere but it seems servicemen who were presented with gallantry awards by him remarked on his sense of humour, which came as a surprise to them.

mh..of all the books written about hitler i think "Adolf Hitler - His best jokes" is still waiting for its turn

ArmchairGeneral · 06-21-2008, 21:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarek Morgen

mh..of all the books written about hitler i think "Adolf Hitler - His best jokes" is still waiting for its turn

Chunder · 06-23-2008, 00:11 AM

Quote:

Even by the lower-than-a-snakes-belly-in-death-valley standard of most anti-Obama hit jobs this is particularly sad. So his campaign theme is empty rhetoric - welcome to the 19th century. This could have been used to open up a broader discussion of political rhetoric, the impact of hollow words or empty promises on the body politic. That, however, would have involved an admission that Obama is just doing what everyone else does, but slightly better than his opponent.

"Oh but this guy is lower than even the lower of the lowest, this time the sky is falling faster" - I think I already commented, that dodgy hit jobs will likely result in a backfire from those that undertake them. Thats what makes it fun, the dodgy hit jobs are things that people are far more used to now than in the past.

I think the point maybe that Obama hasn't got much of a record, if he had one, like every other politician it would be full of pork.

Best not for him to stay around too long before it does come full of political pork. Thats got some pulling power in itself - hence a bit more electable.

It's actually humerous, did we just go from Obama to Hitler in the course of a few posts? Ah gives me a chuckle, If Obama made a parody of all the things he's been called, and posted it on you tube, dressed in a pink skirt, with a turban, holding an AK-47, walking past pictures of Saddam Hussein propoganda everywhere living in a tree with swasstikkas carved into it, it would be hillarious.

I can imagine it now "Hi Im Hussein, lesser known as Barrack Obama, you may not recognise me as an american politician because I don't wear a flag lapel pin 24/7. You might have heard of me from the GOP, I'm a tree hugging hippy from liberal illanois, I once trained with the Indonesian wing of JI, at 4 years of age I planned and executed a hostage taking. My new goal is to tax you out of existence, and in your place I will plant trees ... yes, trees like this one im living in at the moment. My wife, she's always hated America, and each sunday after she picks up the acorns for our kids to eat, we visit our Anti American pastor and openly preach that the American Government is responsible for Aids. If you agree that Iran taking over the middle is a good idea, and in taxing the air you breath, vote Barrack HUSSEIN Obama, and remember, clinging to guns and religeon is bad, especially if your white & havn't snorted one line of good coke yet"

**Julie** · 06-23-2008, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chunder

If Obama made a parody of all the things he's been called, and posted it on you tube, dressed in a pink skirt, with a turban, holding an AK-47, walking past pictures of Saddam Hussein propoganda everywhere living in a tree with swasstikkas carved into it, it would be hillarious

If he ever began trailing McCain in the polls in November, I would not be surprised if he created a scenario for himself such as that.

Ray · 06-23-2008, 06:06 AM

Obama will not win. He is a Black and his attitude is pro poor.

And his middle name is Hussein!

It is against the ethos of the US. They rather not eat than have any socialism shoved in!

A muddle headed, status quo not daring to change white is a better choice!

silky · 06-23-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reasonmclucus

Sen. Barack Obama's campaign slogan "Change We Can Believe In" is a nonsense phrase. It has no real meaning.

Am I the only one who thinks that it doesn't make any sense to believe in "change"? I can see believing in religion or love or maybe even music, but believing in "change" makes no sense. It might make sense to believe in Sen. John McCain's ability to handle the presidency, but believing in some vaguely defined change is ridiculous.

Bill Clinton suggested "It's time to change America" when he ran in 1992. I don't recall him changing much of anything, although two years later voters changed Congress by replacing many Democrats with Republicans.

The slogan "Change We Can Believe In" sounds like something a child might consider impressive, but it has no real meaing. Not surprisingly, Obama has more appeal to inexperienced young voters than to wiser older voters who have seen a lot of fast talking phony politicians.

Obama a few months ago commented about the psychological state of small town people who believed in religion, etc. What is the psychological state of people who believe in some vaguely defined "change"?

Obama's supporters must have very empty lives to believe that some vague "change" is going to make their lives better. Do they expect the president to provide them some type of psychological satisfaction?

The term sounds like it might be some type of code word that Obama and his supporters understand, but whose meaning is supposed to be unknown to others.

As an historian I am inherently suspicious of politicians who rely on oratorical ability to reach people on an emotional level. Southern populists like Huey Long and George Wallace used such emotional oratory to succeed. Adolph Hitler was a master of the technique.

I am also suspicious of politicians who use vague code words. Politicians sometimes use code words and phrases to cover up what they are doing. For example, white southern politicians used the phrase "states' rights" to convince people outside the south that southern whites should be allowed to mistreat black American citizens. Southerns whites argued they were attempting to "preserve their way of life" without mentioning that their way of life involved rape and murder of black residents.

How can we be sure the that Barack Obama is not talking about a "change" designed to reduce the level of democracy in the United States? What guarantee do his supporters have that "change" is just a con to get them to vote for a candidates who doesn't have the necessary management experience to run one of Donald Trump's small companies?

Yes, I agree with you. We can't believe in change. We can help make change, we can be a part of change, and we can try to get others to want change. You make a good valid point.
Here is one example of the change he wants us to believe in:

Obama Trillion Dollar World Welfare Bill Called "Shocking" | Hypocrisy

It's, to put it simply, crazy.

ArmchairGeneral · 06-23-2008, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Obama will not win. He is a Black and his attitude is pro poor.

And his middle name is Hussein!

It is against the ethos of the US. They rather not eat than have any socialism shoved in!

A muddle headed, status quo not daring to change white is a better choice!

Well dang. Now you've got me in a fix. I don't want Obama to win, mainly because I don't like smooth tongued demagogues with no substance, especially liberal ones. On the other hand, I desperately want to be able to point my finger and say "I told you so!" to everybody who claims that Obama can't win because of race. I'm tempted to vote for him, just to prove all the naysayers wrong.

**Julie** · 06-23-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral

I'm tempted to vote for him, just to prove all the naysayers wrong.

Please don't do that.

LetsTalk · 06-23-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray

Obama will not win. He is a Black and his attitude is pro poor.

And his middle name is Hussein!

It is against the ethos of the US. They rather not eat than have any socialism shoved in!

A muddle headed, status quo not daring to change white is a better choice!

is this reverse psychology Ray?

ArmchairGeneral · 06-23-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie

Please don't do that.

Ah, it won't be too bad. I mean, at the absolute worst, Iraq turns into Somalia writ large, we get a nice little recession, and maybe we do a few stupid little "interventions" to make Obama look good on defence. Oh, and we get a two or three oligarchy minded justices on the Supreme Court too. Is that so bad?

**Julie** · 06-23-2008, 14:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral

Ah, it won't be too bad. I mean, at the absolute worst, Iraq turns into Somalia writ large, we get a nice little recession, and maybe we do a few stupid little "interventions" to make Obama look good on defence. Oh, and we get a two or three oligarchy minded justices on the Supreme Court too. Is that so bad?

Worse would be voting him in a second term.....oh gawd !

gunnut · 06-23-2008, 15:20 PM

There's a theory out there by some in the conservative circle to vote for Obama. The logic is to really break this country so we can get a true conservative in the white house in 2012 to fix it. They point to 1976 Carter win that ushered in Reagon in 1980. Maybe we need Obama in 2008 to show the American people how bad socialism is so we can get back on the right track.

The problem I see in that is we don't have a conservative ready to take the mantle like Reagon in 1976.

06-23-2008, 06:06 AM	#23 (permalink)
Ray Suspended Join Date: 08-20-03 Posts: 29,172 Country:	Obama will not win. He is a Black and his attitude is pro poor. And his middle name is Hussein! It is against the ethos of the US. They rather not eat than have any socialism shoved in! A muddle headed, status quo not daring to change white is a better choice! __________________ "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination." I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to. HAKUNA MATATA Last edited by Ray; 06-23-2008 at 06:10 AM..

06-23-2008, 15:20 PM	#30 (permalink)
gunnut *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 01-27-06 Location: DPRK, Democratik People's Republik of Kalifornia Posts: 13,831 Country:	There's a theory out there by some in the conservative circle to vote for Obama. The logic is to really break this country so we can get a true conservative in the white house in 2012 to fix it. They point to 1976 Carter win that ushered in Reagon in 1980. Maybe we need Obama in 2008 to show the American people how bad socialism is so we can get back on the right track. The problem I see in that is we don't have a conservative ready to take the mantle like Reagon in 1976. __________________ "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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