Many of our founding fathers did so much more than become career politicians. Nothing spooky or vague about that. This should give you a list of names to study on your own.
Founding Fathers of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So what you meant was that the founding fathers weren't career politicians and somehow that was a good thing. They were prominent and influential in part because of their business success or their lineage. Is that much different than today?Originally Posted by bonehead
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
All because of Unions and for a short time unprotected rights because of refusal to confirm NLRB nominees. Why can a company like Walmart make half a billion dollars and stick taxpayers with the difference between their wages and subsistance living. It isn't hard to confirm the hundreds of millions in public benefits walmart employees get.....mostly because it is near impossible to unionize with the changes in the last 30 years. The decline of the avg earnings for working class people is exactly in line with the decline in union membership. remember bradlees? Their employees were Union and earned a living wage. We helped put them out of business by giving walmart employees public health benefits and foodstamps so they could live on the wages they were paid. The only place their is an independent walmart Union is China.....ironic huh? You think it's coincidence I made 12 dollars more an hr than someone in SC doing the say job in a right not to work for a decent wage state? It was my union that made the difference and the company hardly suffered for it they just made sure I was far more skilled than that jamoche doing my job for less so my productivity made up the difference. Some might say oh military contractor but....the spares are open contracts and we win them too against non union shops because of the cost of quality.
Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
~Ronald Reagan
Well, maybe the tax payers shouldn't subsidize low earning workers, at Walmart and other places.
So instead of having the tax payers subsidize low earning workers, we will have the consumers subsidize them. What if we refuse to and look elsewhere for the labor they provide?
You know, I think there should be a scale of pay compiled by the UN. Every single type of labor has a fixed pay scale, and affected by seniority. This should apply to the entire world to ensure a fair and just living condition for all.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
UN. I know you've been sarcastic but this is an overkill.
While you are at it, fix the prices, too. It won't be fair for us.
We are gonna get confused what do with the extra $$$? Buy euros?
No such thing as a good tax - Churchill
To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.
Yes, I forgot about price control. UN, in addition to publishing a pay schedule for all types of jobs under the sun, should also publish a pricing schedule for all products under the sun. We want to make sure people make the same money doing the same work around the world can enjoy the same products at the same price, anywhere in the world.UN. I know you've been sarcastic but this is an overkill.
While you are at it, fix the prices, too. It won't be fair for us.
We are gonna get confused what do with the extra $$$? Buy euros?
After all, we want this world to be fair.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
Not all because of unions. Using the workplace safety example that was given(no railing), aside from OSHA there are more than a dozen Federal, State and local agencies that would step in/monitor such things. Not to mention, calling the non-compliant companys insurance carrier or the local code enforcement/building department.
The unions may have been the driving force 50 yrs ago for workplace safety but its now codified in laws, regulations and building codes.
Or it could be said that Bradlees priced themselves out of the market because they could not afford to do business during the general economic downturn, including rising interest rates and higher gas and heating oil prices. (thier reason for filing bankruptcy)Why can a company like Walmart make half a billion dollars and stick taxpayers with the difference between their wages and subsistance living. It isn't hard to confirm the hundreds of millions in public benefits walmart employees get.....mostly because it is near impossible to unionize with the changes in the last 30 years. The decline of the avg earnings for working class people is exactly in line with the decline in union membership. remember bradlees? Their employees were Union and earned a living wage.
Open Government contracts favor union bidders.You think it's coincidence I made 12 dollars more an hr than someone in SC doing the say job in a right not to work for a decent wage state? It was my union that made the difference and the company hardly suffered for it they just made sure I was far more skilled than that jamoche doing my job for less so my productivity made up the difference. Some might say oh military contractor but....the spares are open contracts and we win them too against non union shops because of the cost of quality.
But lets get back to that "Extra 12 dollars an hour" you make. What is the cost of living in Conn compared to the cost of living in SC? I went to CNN Moneys Cost of living calculator. Plugged in New Haven (17 miles from Stratford)
and Greenville SC(home of ADEX Machining). If you make 70 thousand in Conn. Then you will only have to make 50,555 in Greenville to have the same standard of living.
In Greenville, Groceries are 12% less, Housing is 47% less, Utilities are 27% less, Transportation is 15% less and Healthcare cost 9% less.
Cost of Living Calculator: Compare prices in two cities - CNNMoney
Cost are less because, among other things wages are not artificially inflated because of union demands. They may "work for less" but it also cost less for them to live. Conn is the 6th most expensive state to live in and ranks as #4 as the worst state to retire in.
States where seniors cannot afford to live - Bottom Line
Connecticut
Elderly economic security gap: $8,020
Median elder income: $19,580 (7th highest)
Annual cost of comfortable living for an elder: $27,600 (3rd highest)
Life expectancy in years: 80.2 (5th longest)
Housing costs per month: $1,004 (5th highest)
Health care costs per month: $430 (6th highest)
Costs for all Connecticut residents, regardless of age, are in the top 10 for every measured category, including transportation, health care and utilities, according to MERIC’s cost of living report for Q4 2011. These costs are a heavy burden on the state’s retired citizens, as well. Connecticut’s seniors make $19,580 a year, the seventh-highest income in the country. However, the minimum income required to meet basic needs is $27,600, the third highest in the U.S., according to WOW’s Economic Security Database. The difference amounts to more than $8,000 each year.
Its great that , thanks to Unions, you make all that money. Too bad you will not be able to afford to live there when you get old.
But don't worry, I'll build you a house in Florida. Seems to be the place where all the Damn Yankees retire . But since you want to be fair about it, I'll pay my employees "Union Wages" and charge you Conn prices.. I'm sure you won't mind that extra 47% it will cost you
Last edited by Gun Grape; 23 Jun 12, at 15:48.
Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?
Some government agencies won't lift a finger unless you use a cattle prod on them. Even then if it is not politically expedient for them to do something they won't. All the building codes and safety codes that are laws today can be repealed in a heartbeat if no one is around to protect them.Not all because of unions. Using the workplace safety example that was given(no railing), aside from OSHA there are more than a dozen Federal, State and local agencies that would step in/monitor such things. Not to mention, calling the non-compliant companys insurance carrier or the local code enforcement/building department.
The unions may have been the driving force 50 yrs ago for workplace safety but its now codified in laws, regulations and building codes.
Or it could be said that Bradlees priced themselves out of the market because they could not afford to do business during the general economic downturn, including rising interest rates and higher gas and heating oil prices. (thier reason for filing bankruptcy)
Open Government contracts favor union bidders.
But lets get back to that "Extra 12 dollars an hour" you make. What is the cost of living in Conn compared to the cost of living in SC? I went to CNN Moneys Cost of living calculator. Plugged in New Haven (17 miles from Stratford)
and Greenville SC(home of ADEX Machining). If you make 70 thousand in Conn. Then you will only have to make 50,555 in Greenville to have the same standard of living.
In Greenville, Groceries are 12% less, Housing is 47% less, Utilities are 27% less, Transportation is 15% less and Healthcare cost 9% less.
Cost of Living Calculator: Compare prices in two cities - CNNMoney
Cost are less because, among other things wages are not artificially inflated because of union demands. They may "work for less" but it also cost less for them to live. Conn is the 6th most expensive state to live in and ranks as #4 as the worst state to retire in.
States where seniors cannot afford to live - Bottom Line
Connecticut
Elderly economic security gap: $8,020
Median elder income: $19,580 (7th highest)
Annual cost of comfortable living for an elder: $27,600 (3rd highest)
Life expectancy in years: 80.2 (5th longest)
Housing costs per month: $1,004 (5th highest)
Health care costs per month: $430 (6th highest)
Costs for all Connecticut residents, regardless of age, are in the top 10 for every measured category, including transportation, health care and utilities, according to MERIC’s cost of living report for Q4 2011. These costs are a heavy burden on the state’s retired citizens, as well. Connecticut’s seniors make $19,580 a year, the seventh-highest income in the country. However, the minimum income required to meet basic needs is $27,600, the third highest in the U.S., according to WOW’s Economic Security Database. The difference amounts to more than $8,000 each year.
Its great that , thanks to Unions, you make all that money. Too bad you will not be able to afford to live there when you get old.
But don't worry, I'll build you a house in Florida. Seems to be the place where all the Damn Yankees retire . But since you want to be fair about it, I'll pay my employees "Union Wages" and charge you Conn prices.. I'm sure you won't mind that extra 47% it will cost you
Sure things are more expensive in certain parts of the country. Thank God that most of those places don't have laws making the wages artificially low via right to work for less legislation.
Tommy Shaw and Jack Blades live in California. Michael Cartellone lives in New York and Ted Nugent lives in Michigan. No Damned Yankees live in Florida.
My biggest chuckle is that the numbers of union work force is low yet you attribute unions as the primary reason of the higher price of living. That dog don't hunt.
No they won't. If for no other reason than Insurance companies won't allow that to happen. They would get hit big time due to workplace injuries if all of a sudden The Fed, State and local authorities suddenly decided to repeal all building codes and get rid of hundreds of government agencies. Insurance companies are a large part of the process when it comes to building/Fire/Electrical codes
Not that that would ever happen.
So you are saying that the majority of the more expensive places to live require union participation and employers to pay prevailing union wages to their employees?Sure things are more expensive in certain parts of the country. Thank God that most of those places don't have laws making the wages artificially low via right to work for less legislation.
Cause and Effect
Its a Southern thing. Anyone from the North that comes to visit is a "Yankee". Those that move here are "Damn Yankees"Tommy Shaw and Jack Blades live in California. Michael Cartellone lives in New York and Ted Nugent lives in Michigan. No Damned Yankees live in Florida.
Sure it does. Those areas were majority union years ago.Wages are inflated. Even today Conn is around 20% UnionMy biggest chuckle is that the numbers of union work force is low yet you attribute unions as the primary reason of the higher price of living. That dog don't hunt.
Thats Ok my biggest chuckle is that you think that Unions(presently around 7% of the workforce) are the only thing stopping every Fed, State and local government from abolishing workplace safety
Its called Tourist Season. So why can't we shoot them?
Some is not all and some is very few. My experience.
Gunny gave one reason that won't happen--insurance companies. Another one and a big one is that people want codes and inspections. Oh sure, some people don't get building permits for small stuff, but they usually insist on them for the big stuff. The code exists because there were a lot of builders who didn't know their trade and a lot of penny pinching contractors who did, but cut corners. Just try telling people the code is no more and you're gonna have one hell of a lot of angry people throwing politicians out of office.Even then if it is not politically expedient for them to do something they won't. All the building codes and safety codes that are laws today can be repealed in a heartbeat if no one is around to protect them.
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
Your going "all or nothing" Many parts of codes and labor laws can be repealed under "common sense" legislation. Add some loop holes if you will and corporations just love loop holes. Secondly, code enforcement can be curtailed simply by cutting the funding for said agencies. When inspectors are spread too thin they simply can not catch everything. As with labor laws,insurance companies don't give a rats ass about 8 hour days and 40 hour work weeks. Who is going to defend those things when big business comes and says they need even more concessions. Lastly insurance companies most likely won't be defending the status quo. They would push for "reform" to limit their pay outs. They care about money..not people.
So one one hand you say that "wages are inflated" because of a minority working union,yet you also say that those very same people did not get paid enough to save for retirement so they have to move to Florida. Let me know when you see the flaw in your reasoning.
Perhaps, but labor laws and code requirements are entirely different animals. I've never seen a legislative change to the code. All the codes I've worked with (Uniform Building, BOCA, etc.) have built in mechanisms for appeals and revision.
Theoretically, you are right. But keep in mind every county and major metro area has its own zoning, planning and permitting function, and their little add-ons to the general codes. For example, depth of footers is a local thing...just to name one. My jurisdiction has cut plans reviews and inspections staff, but all that means is you may wait a little longer to get inspected, but the inspections are no less thorough than 5 years ago, maybe more intense as there is less construction going on these days.Secondly, code enforcement can be curtailed simply by cutting the funding for said agencies. When inspectors are spread too thin they simply can not catch everything.
You apparently don't understand how insurance companies work. Yes, profits are important. But most of the premiums they collect are held in reserve for claims. People can't understand why an insurance company with $4, 10, 20 billion in the bank could go bankrupt. Reserves are based on actuarial tables and state insurance commissions requirements. Insurance is pooled risk--not every policyholder will file a claim, but those that do expect to be paid. So insurance companies are going to construct terms that preserve the benefit of pooled risk. Existing law is factored in. If they don't do this, they'll go under.As with labor laws,insurance companies don't give a rats ass about 8 hour days and 40 hour work weeks. Who is going to defend those things when big business comes and says they need even more concessions. Lastly insurance companies most likely won't be defending the status quo. They would push for "reform" to limit their pay outs. They care about money..not people.
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
"Existing law is factored in. If they don't do this, they'll go under."
Duh. There is also no question that insurance companies have their eyes down the road as well. Many are strong supporters of "tort reform" as they want less lawsuits and smaller claims for damages. Therefore if the insurance companies can save or even improve their bottom line they don't care much who gets thrown under the bus as long as it isn't them.
The legislation doesn't have to change any codes per say. All they have to do is cut your budget to the bone and then some and it won't be long before the inspectors left will have too great a work load to do every job effectively. Your state may differ but In Oregon once you call for inspection they have to be there within a certain time frame or its tough nuts and the work resumes. Contractors take advantage of this all the time.
How did insurance companies get into this topic? Anyway, what business doesn't have "its eyes down road? We need tort reform and we also need to level the playing field so litigants without deep pockets aren't ground down by the discovery process. Every business ought to have its eyes on the bottom line. Why make commonplace practice sounds wrong?
Like I said before, people, aka voters, won't stand for crippling the plans review, permitting, and inspection system. So any politician who is bold enough to support it can kiss re-election goodbye. I didn't see anything unusual in Oregon's inspection request system, and the time frames are all day. But let's say you're right on interim inspections. It's highly unlikely any jurisdiction will let a final inspection go because the inspector was late. So if you keep trucking after a missed interim inspection, you had better have it right on final. An inspector once let me pour footers without a footer inspection because he was late and I had concrete trucks standing by. But he knew me and knew I wouldn't have called in for an inspection if I wasn't ready. What is your source for that Oregon rule and what inspections does it cover? Seems crazy.The legislation doesn't have to change any codes per say. All they have to do is cut your budget to the bone and then some and it won't be long before the inspectors left will have too great a work load to do every job effectively. Your state may differ but In Oregon once you call for inspection they have to be there within a certain time frame or its tough nuts and the work resumes. Contractors take advantage of this all the time.
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
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