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Thread: Rush Limbaugh: Making sense or making an ass of himself?

  1. #76
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    There's a free method and non-intrusive method already available for this. She could keep her legs closed.

    -dale
    If that were at all feasible in today's society and culture we would have zero abortions, zero unwanted children and STD's would be nonexistent. Nor would keeping her legs together be of much use if she is raped. Your also talking about a huge fundamental change in society and relationships if women in general turned off the tap.

  2. #77
    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blademaster View Post
    Oh get the fvck over yourself. If you can't handle the heat, get out. Otherwise shut the hell up.
    Heat? What heat? The kid hasn't layed a glove on me since he joined WAB. Notice how he's managed to construct an entire fantasy argument with me without me actually having said a thing. Pretty much par for the course - he doesn't need me to be involved. No 'heat' here. He appears determined to embarrass himself. I'm disinclined to help him. You'll note that he called me out, I've long since stopped jumping on his posts. There is nothing to 'handle' here.

    You've walked into an ongoing series of arguments, I suggest you get over yourself & walk right out again.
    Last edited by Bigfella; 04 Mar 12, at 20:01.
    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

  3. #78
    Contributor Wayfarer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    All taken verbatim from some of the MRA sites that exist out there:
    Yes, my original post linked straight to one.

    Twenty One Indicators of Systemic Discrimination Against Men
    12 indisputable indicators that Men are Second Class citizens in the USA

    All with generic references to groups and govt. depts but without citing specific reports

    All refuted again by feminist websites like the following, again with some refrences

    Some masculinist rubbish… | The Prime Directive

    Enough of "he said, she said" here to make me feel sick

    From the feminist website you linked (interesting how the author praises the fact that America has 96% of custody going to women, not wanting to give custody of a child to a "rapist". Equally sexist, equally disturbing, but it is tolerated.

    4. WORKPLACE FATALITIES: Men account for more than 95% of all workplace fatalities.

    Slightly exaggerated, and misleading. The correct percentage is 93%, not “more than 95%.” It is also misleading because it actually reflects sexism- the fact that men monopolize certain more dangerous professions such as aircraft pilots, flight engineers, and fishers.
    Monopolizing borne out of rational choice of the employer to choose individuals with characteristics that will maximize productivity...I don't know if she is referring to the U.K like in her other responses, but BLS has no method by which I can see fatalities in industry via gender.

    I see a sexist and I raise you a man who wants to stand up to misandry

    MenWeb - Men's Issues: Men Questioning Feminism are Bitter Woman-Haters

    6. CHILD CUSTODY: Women receive physical custody of 92% of all children of separation, and men only 4%. [Department of Health & Human Services]

    Absolutely false. Women receive custody in 72% of cases, in the UK 71%. And that horrifies me: why are so many men still getting custody of children?? I hope one day we’ll get down to 4%
    Again, still a overwhelming majority. Statistically speaking should it not be around 50%?

    7. JURY BIAS: Women are acquitted of spousal murder at a rate 9 times that of men [Bureau Justice Statistics -- 1.4% of men vs 12.9% of women]

    8. COURT BIAS: Men are sentenced 2.8 times longer than women for spousal murder [Bureau Justice Statistics -- men at 17 years vs women at 6 years]


    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/SPOUSMUR.PDF

    Here is the exact study.

    True but misleading. Gee, that couldn’t be because one woman out of four is victim of domestic violence, isn’t it?
    Since when is vigilantism justified or even accepted?


    9. JUSTICE SYSTEM BIAS: Women are assessed for Child Support on average at half the rate of men, yet are twice as likely to default on Child Support payments. Ninety Seven (97%) of all child support prosecutions are against fathers. [Census Bureau]

    Grossly false. Men and women pay child support at close to the same rate.
    Nice sleight of hand here. 96% of women recieve custody, and as such are the recepients of child support payments. 4% of men recieve custody, and recieve roughly the same child support payments. As a whole, males pay vastly greater amounts of Child support whilst often having their visitation rights waived.

    10. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE: Numerous credible studies from independent researchers report that women are the initiators of domestic violence in 58% of all cases, and cause physical abuse in almost 50% of all cases, yet women only account for 6% of all criminal proceedings in such matters.

    Made up. I could find no trace of any such “studies,” and they provide no citation whatsoever. They pulled it out of their ass (well, to be fair, they are assholes, so where else would it come from?).
    From Melbournes very own La-Trobe University.

    DOMESTIC VIOLENCE STATISTICS - AUSTRALIA - Are Women and Men Equally Violent?
    11. CHILD VIOLENCE: Mothers commit 55% of all child murders and biological fathers commit 6%. NIS-3 indicates that Mother-only households are 3 times more fatal to children than Father-only households. Despite these compelling figures, children are systematically removed from the natural fathers who are their most effective protectors.

    Grossly false. 97% of those convicted of violent crimes against children are male.
    Have a look at NIS-3.

    Executive Summary of the Third National Incidence Study of Child Abuse and Neglect

    Perpetrator's Sex. Children were somewhat more likely to be maltreated by female perpetrators than by males: 65 percent of the maltreated children had been maltreated by a female, whereas 54 percent had been maltreated by a male. Of children who were maltreated by their birth parents, the majority (75%) were maltreated by their mothers and a sizable minority (46%) were maltreated by their fathers (some children were maltreated by both parents). In contrast, children who were maltreated by other parents or parent-substitutes, or by other persons, were more likely to have been maltreated by a male than by a female (80 to 85% were maltreated by males; 14 to 41% by females).
    I believe the context was mothers/fathers, as opposed to males with no relationship whatsoever to the victim. Citing a totally different study and responding in a totally different fashion with smoke and mirrors.



    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    If I need to take a guess, I would characterize you as BJP rather than National Party
    Too economically left for me. Social conservatism with fiscal socialism. After reading Mises and Rothbard, I quickly abandoned fiscal socialism and social conservatism. RSS reeks of fascistic overtones.
    "Who says organization, says oligarchy"

  4. #79
    Contributor Wayfarer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bigfella View Post
    Heat? What heat? The kid hasn't layed a glove on me since he joined WAB. Notice how he's managed to construct an entire fantasy argument with me without me actually having said a thing.
    Fantasy argument? Lol, again I clearly responded to your statement regarding the perception of promiscuity between the sexes. Which seems to have got your angry old self (lets drop the kid reference, its somewhat disturbing on the internet) riled up...

    Your response

    Just one point, how is not having terms to penalize & demonize female sexuality for which there is no common male equivalent 'putting women on a pedestal'? I'm simply pointing out a howling double standard. You appear not to have even slightly comprehended that in your rush to show how nasty & priviledged women are (imagine my shock).
    You reply by pointing out a double standard, fine. You believe the perception of sexual promiscuity towards both sexes should be identical, when both come from two different corners, so to speak.

    I respond by posing you a question, should you decry this relatively flippant double standard, should you also not decry the massive bias in the system against males, particular in relation to Child Custody and domestic violence/sentencing. I'm still waiting on the response.

    Is it that hard to get?

    I'm happy pointing out the hypocrisy in the lefts pick and choose version of equality that appeals to special interest groups. Its simply discrimination clothed as anti-discrimination.

    Pretty much par for the course - he doesn't need me to be involved. No 'heat' here. He appears determined to embarrass himself. I'm disinclined to help him. You'll note that he called me out, I've long since stopped jumping on his posts. There is nothing to 'handle' here
    Disinclined enough to not help me, but inclined enough to continue with the delusion that an individual addressing a very real issue is somehow "embarassing" himself.
    "Who says organization, says oligarchy"

  5. #80
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Wayrafer,

    All those stats would have a logical explanation, usually sociological and if you want to sexist and based on prejudices.
    Women get the kids because that's what they are supposed to do - raise kids if possible in the kitchen.

    You just need to go case by case instead of looking at the averaged numbers.

    For many of those stats, you have so little base to get accurate numbers.
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  6. #81
    Contributor Wayfarer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    .Is there any analysis for this? One that I can think of is that men are paid more for the same job, therefor they can pay baby sitters and live under much less stress.
    Not really sure here. Psychology ain't my thing.


    Why is that? The judges are at least 50-50%
    You guess is as good as mine.

    MenWeb - Men's Issues: Men Questioning Feminism are Bitter Woman-Haters

    There is so much clear and convincing evidence that this is the effect of systematic efforts by feminists over the past decade or more, that I hardly know where to begin. It's clear that this is not just a rare example, or just a weird judge, or just an isolated injustice. It's the direct result of the lobbying and other efforts of feminism, through NOW and its many local chapters, through rape crisis centers and battered women centers, and many other forms of feminist activism. I think it's "burying our heads in the sand" to say otherwise. One of our members talks of "convenience feminism," or whatever term he uses. This area, to me, is a prime example. We often hear, "Of course there are a few weird feminists, and I don't agree with them. But it's unfair to blame the feminist influence for these rare examples of injustices."

    Through the efforts of NOW and feminists, the federal government now spends well over a billion dollars a year under the Violence Against Women Act. This is not enough. NOW is vigorously campaigning to increase the funding for battered-women shelters by 33.3% in the bill it's promoting, VAWA II, or renewal and expansion of the Violence Against Women Act.

    One element of this is what NOW calls "training for recalcitrant judges." They're not talking about neutral, professional training programs about the dynamics of the "dance of anger" that leads to domestic violence. The position is clear, that women are innocent victims and men the perpetrators. The training is offered by domestic violence centers and rape crisis centers, by staff that fully buy into this scenario and brook no opposition. So much so, that it's a Seattle Police Department policy that if there's any dispute or cross-allegations, it is the man who will be arrested. NOW has also called on local chapters to institute "court watch" programs, to attempt the removal of judges who disagree with their viewpoint. As Paul Goetz writes in "Monkey See, Monkey Do," published in M.E.N. Magazine a while back, he wasn't even able to file a complaint against a battering wife who'd sent him to the hospital, because the court was dominated by the Minneapolis domestic violence programs.

    Judges are elected officials. They know full well the consequences of "bucking the trend."

    What happens to people who have opposed this view that women are always the innocent victims and men the batterers? They're threatened with physical violence (e.g. Erin Pizzey, author of Prone to Violence, the book's publisher, and Suzanne Steinmetz, a researcher who found women about as likely to initiate violence, all of whom received bomb threats), slanderous attacks (as by the head of the Canadian commission on domestic violence, who was forced to apologize for repeated slandering of researcher Murray Straus as being abusive to his wife -- Straus also found women likely to initiate violence) or ruining of their professional reputation (as where feminists forced the university to pull researcher Gellis' access to the Internet to promulgate his research findings and promote further research).

    Why Some People Have Issues With Men: Misandry | Psychology Today

    Anthony Synnott, Ph.D., is a professor of sociology at Concordia University in Montreal.

    . Political Demonization: This new sexism, reverse sexism, is widespread in feminist and pro-feminist literature - or propaganda, one might say, - but largely ignored. One does not criticize feminism! But a fair number of feminists have criticized men in sexist terms. Marilyn French called men "the enemy." Germaine Greer wrote that that: "women have no idea how much men hate them." Betty Friedan, amazingly, referred to suburban domestic life as a "comfortable concentration camp" for women, and to their husbands a SS prison guards. Rosalind Miles described men as "the death sex." Valerie Solanas wrote "The SCUM Manifesto", the Society for Cutting Up Men, and Robin Morgan obligingly publicized this hate literature. Alice Walker's "The Color Purple" won the Pulitzer and is totally misandric, as are the best-sellers by Terry MacMillan. The movies were also were also very popular among women. Misandry sells. Why these black women should demonize black men, compounding sexism and racism, I don't know. It just reinforces racism.
    Why is the silence deafening?



    Huh? How can someone force you to pay something you have no obligations to.
    DNA Proves Not Biological Father, But Forced to Pay Child Support


    Please don't.
    I never understood the logic of using racism to solve problems created by racism.


    Unless something changed last few years, the men working the same job will earn more in their life time (7 years less).
    Still hovering around 77ish

    "The ratio of women's and men's median annual earnings was 77.0 for full-time, year-round workers in 2009, essentially unchanged from 77.1 in 2008. (This means the gender wage gap for full-time, year-round workers is now 22.9 percent.) This is below the peak of 77.8 percent in 2007," according to the Institute for Women's Policy Research.
    However, on the flipside, men have suffered more in the post-recession climate.

    http://nyfedeconomists.org/sahin/GenderGap.pdf

    Men @ about 11%, women hovering a bit above 8%.

    So less pay equals to greater job security it seems. . Which confirms my suspicions, companies would be seeking to employ more women because it is comparitively cheaper. Heck, when we start going fully-post-industrial, us men might permanently be jobless!






    Don't now about UK, but over here the same applies for a widow and a widower.
    How far away do you live from mihais?


    Men just don't care, they have the remote and will change the channel. Afterwards, the ratings will drop and that show will be gone. Besides all men I know love Al bundy.
    Is it a good thing that we don't care?
    "Who says organization, says oligarchy"

  7. #82
    Contributor Wayfarer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    Wayrafer,

    All those stats would have a logical explanation, usually sociological and if you want to sexist and based on prejudices.
    Women get the kids because that's what they are supposed to do - raise kids if possible in the kitchen.

    You just need to go case by case instead of looking at the averaged numbers.


    Prejudice has no place in a legal system.




    For many of those stats, you have so little base to get accurate numbers.
    How was the methodology flawed?
    "Who says organization, says oligarchy"

  8. #83
    Senior Contributor Doktor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayfarer View Post
    Prejudice has no place in a legal system.
    The judges and the jurors should have been 50:50 male/female...

    How was the methodology flawed?
    For instance on child murders...

    Let's say there are are 10,000 divorces, in 9,200 cases the wife gets the kids and in 400 the hubby.

    CHILD VIOLENCE: Even though mothers commit 55% of child murders and biological fathers commit 6%, even though NIS-3 shows that Mother-only households are 3 times more fatal to children than Father-only households, children are systematically removed from the natural fathers who are their most effective protectors and men are imprisoned at rate 20 times that of women.
    Now if 10% of them murder their kids, that would be 920:40 = 95,83% vs 4,17%.

    See what I mean?
    No such thing as a good tax - Churchill

    To make mistakes is human. To blame someone else for your mistake, is strategic.

  9. #84
    Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    IMO, Limbaugh went over the line insulting that Fluke woman. She should sue him for slander and libel, that is what he did. Doing it to public figures is fair game, doing that to private citizens is another story. The Democrats that tried to put her before a congressional commitee to testify about that subject were way off too - she is no expert on woman's health, couldn't they find someone who is?
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor View Post
    The judges and the jurors should have been 50:50 male/female...
    Conviction I have no problem with, sentencing from judges I do, especially when it differs based on gender.

    Women get the kids because that's what they are supposed to do
    This inherent, incorrect assumption from the outset puts men at a disadvantage.

    For instance on child murders...

    Let's say there are are 10,000 divorces, in 9,200 cases the wife gets the kids and in 400 the hubby.



    Now if 10% of them murder their kids, that would be 920:40 = 95,83% vs 4,17%.

    See what I mean?
    Different report altogether for Child murder statistics, data is a bit old (1994)

    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/mf.pdf

    First page shows that 55% of child murders are committed by mothers. Later in the report biological fathers are shown to comprise 6% of the pool. Yet why is the imprisonment rate different?

    I'll take this from the dewar report on child homicide

    http://www.dewar4research.org/docs/chom.pdf

    Male parents who kill their children are generally treated more harshly and
    unsympathetically by the legal process than female parents: fathers are
    more likely than mothers to be charged with murder than manslaughter,
    and more fathers than mothers convicted of manslaughter are imprisoned;
    convicted mothers are more likely than fathers to be hospitalised or treated
    rather than imprisoned
    If that isn't clear bias and discrimination from the outset based on gender, and not circumstance, I don't know what is.
    "Who says organization, says oligarchy"

  11. #86
    Senior Contributor bonehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USSWisconsin View Post
    IMO, Limbaugh went over the line insulting that Fluke woman. She should sue him for slander and libel, that is what he did. Doing it to public figures is fair game, doing that to private citizens is another story. The Democrats that tried to put her before a congressional commitee to testify about that subject were way off too - she is no expert on woman's health, couldn't they find someone who is?
    Fluke is an activist on the subject so its not like they picked someone out of the blue. If you want to find a spokesperson for women's birth control you need someone who is of reproductive age, someone articulate, and reasonably well versed on the subject. Fluke fits the bill.She also handled herself rather well in front of a camera. Obviously she struck a chord. Her testimony has kept this issue on the front burner and her message so intimidating that the likes of Rush felt the need to viciously attack her. Its not like Pelosi or Feinstein need any birth control so this whole issue must be foreign to them.

    Sometimes congress just likes to hear from people who are close to the situation. This is not unlike calling in Baseball players to explore the issue of steroids. "Joe the plumber" also rings a bell politically speaking.

  12. #87
    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Are you on some kind of mission to see how many asinine comments you can rack up each week?
    What is asinine about my comment? Can she or can't she regulate access to her vagina?

    -dale

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    Colonist Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by antimony View Post
    Are you on some kind of mission to see how many asinine comments you can rack up each week?
    I'm sorry, I didn't recognise it as an assinine comment. She needs to somehow accommodate her issues - If she wants to make them public, then public they become.
    Ego Numquam

  14. #89
    Battleship Enthusiast Defense Professional USSWisconsin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bonehead View Post
    Fluke is an activist on the subject so its not like they picked someone out of the blue. If you want to find a spokesperson for women's birth control you need someone who is of reproductive age, someone articulate, and reasonably well versed on the subject. Fluke fits the bill.She also handled herself rather well in front of a camera. Obviously she struck a chord. Her testimony has kept this issue on the front burner and her message so intimidating that the likes of Rush felt the need to viciously attack her. Its not like Pelosi or Feinstein need any birth control so this whole issue must be foreign to them.

    Sometimes congress just likes to hear from people who are close to the situation. This is not unlike calling in Baseball players to explore the issue of steroids. "Joe the plumber" also rings a bell politically speaking.
    I was thinking they should have called someone with healthcare credentials. An expert witness, who would be able to testify about the needs of women and the costs of things not being covered.

    IMO, contraception is cheaper than an unwanted pregnancy - so it seems to me that good healthcare insurance should cover it - but the healthcare should be a privately purchased commodity for most people - perhaps part of their employee benifits. For people on medicare - like disabled persons - I support healthcare with conception as an available service - if requested. I don't support Obama care, I provide my healthcare via my employment agreement, so should anyone else able to do so.
    "If your plan is for one year, plant rice. If your plan is for ten years, plant trees.
    If your plan is for one hundred years, educate children."

  15. #90
    Senior Contributor antimony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    What is asinine about my comment? Can she or can't she regulate access to her vagina?

    -dale
    Fine, then answer what I have been asking for a while. Why do you not object to giving a guy a willie fix on your dime? How come that is not worth your moral outrage? Why can't men control their sexual urges and have to paid for the blue pill to fix their dipsticks?
    "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

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