Thread: Fix education, restore social mobility

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

If goverment is the problem the idea goverment employees are so indispensible they cant unionize is a lie

Government is essential, I never disputed that. However it's only essential up to a point. That point is to provide stuff that the private sector cannot provide, like national defense, judiciary, the police. In fact, even the police can be outsourced if we do it carefully. Postal service can be outsourced, as done in the UK. Minting money can be done privately, like that in Hong Kong. Educaton definitely can be outsourced, like charter schools and private schools have shown.

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

I love your revisonist history on gm. Just keep telling yourself the bondholders were poor victims and we wouldnt be in a depression if ALL auto plants in the country had suffered supply chain disruptions and been forced to lay off

So the auto bailout is to save "parts suppliers" and their jobs? I can say that about the banks. Banks touch more lives than cars. Our financial system involve more people than auto industry. But they are demonized because bankers and their workers don't have unions.

By the way, what did the GM bond holders get in the bailout?

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

Yeah...how can we make it so families can get by on one or one and a half incomes again mmmmm....I know tax reform so the middle class isnt paying twice what the top 10 percent pay as an effective tax rate!

I'm paying 25% to 28% federal rate, plus 9.3% CA rate, 6% payroll (plus employer match), property tax, 7.75% sales tax.

Am I in the top 10%? Am I middle class?

gunnut,

Am I in the top 10%? Am I middle class?

i think you're in a special class, "asian redneck class"...

Originally Posted by gunnut

So...our education system was fine before the 1970s...what happened during that time?

Shhh. You'll give it away.

-dale

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

The growth of two income middle class and working class families being needed to get by and the subsequent diminished time to parant

Let's stipulate that that is/was a problem. Wouldn't you, with your cries of "Sacrifice! Sacrifice!" place the blame on families unwilling to sacrifice for the sake of their children? Maybe stick with the econo car and the bag lunches and the smaller homes and no Atari/VCR/Cable TV instead of trying to have lots of "things" AND kids? Maybe raise a generation or two that didn't grow up expecting a noisy sloppy BJ from the Universe all our lives?

Or are you a "have your cake and eat it too" kind of fellow?

-dale

Originally Posted by gunnut

Government is essential, I never disputed that. However it's only essential up to a point. That point is to provide stuff that the private sector cannot provide, like national defense, judiciary, the police. In fact, even the police can be outsourced if we do it carefully. Postal service can be outsourced, as done in the UK. Minting money can be done privately, like that in Hong Kong. Educaton definitely can be outsourced, like charter schools and private schools have shown.



So the auto bailout is to save "parts suppliers" and their jobs? I can say that about the banks. Banks touch more lives than cars. Our financial system involve more people than auto industry. But they are demonized because bankers and their workers don't have unions.

By the way, what did the GM bond holders get in the bailout?

I didnt say that. I said if GM had failed so would parts suppliers that supply all auto production in the USA and supply chain breakdowns would of ended much production and no production means lay offs...and it was Toyota that said that as they argued for the bail out. Ahh yeah those poor bond speculators who bought debt for 40 cents on the dollars and only got bailed out on their wall st holdings............poor bastards

Originally Posted by dalem

Let's stipulate that that is/was a problem. Wouldn't you, with your cries of "Sacrifice! Sacrifice!" place the blame on families unwilling to sacrifice for the sake of their children? Maybe stick with the econo car and the bag lunches and the smaller homes and no Atari/VCR/Cable TV instead of trying to have lots of "things" AND kids? Maybe raise a generation or two that didn't grow up expecting a noisy sloppy BJ from the Universe all our lives?

Or are you a "have your cake and eat it too" kind of fellow?

-dale

actually if you are paying attention much of the country is doing that and still need two incomes. Most houses are not mcmansions and vast numbers rent

Originally Posted by gunnut

I'm paying 25% to 28% federal rate, plus 9.3% CA rate, 6% payroll (plus employer match), property tax, 7.75% sales tax.

Am I in the top 10%? Am I middle class?

God no and you missed the 15 percent tax on social security wages which if we are honest is a cost that the employer considers whn offering you pay. It's not like they make 7.5 percent less profit the last 30 yrs. Meanwhile a hedge fund manager investing no capital pays cap gains tax on billions in earning and no social security taxes. I imagine you are in the screwed middle class a few rungs from me that basically are accounted for by experience and length of employment. Stae and local taxes really dont come to bear in a discussion of federal tax burdens and at least in CT are near flat. When you look at percentage of pay rather than total paid the taxcode is progressive to a point then turns regressive giving it a bell shape

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

actually if you are paying attention much of the country is doing that and still need two incomes. Most houses are not mcmansions and vast numbers rent

I was mainly talking about the 70s but okay. What do they need two incomes FOR?

-dale

Originally Posted by astralis

gunnut,



i think you're in a special class, "asian redneck class"...

I should get my own tax break and be protected under the "Endangered Species Act."

Originally Posted by gunnut

I'm paying 25% to 28% federal rate, plus 9.3% CA rate, 6% payroll (plus employer match), property tax, 7.75% sales tax.

Am I in the top 10%? Am I middle class?

I pay ALL that + VAT, Capital Gains, road tax, tv licensce, extra tax on wine and petrol (don't smoke thankfuly), effective 'green tax', and help pay for Euro debacle! "You had it easy! When I were a lad..."



I essentialy agree with you though.

Originally Posted by gunnut

I should get my own tax break and be protected under the "Endangered Species Act."

What for? To buy a V12 lawnmower?

Originally Posted by gunnut

I'm paying 25% to 28% federal rate, plus 9.3% CA rate, 6% payroll (plus employer match), property tax, 7.75% sales tax.

Am I in the top 10%? Am I middle class?

If you're paying 9.3% state tax on top of your federal tax, you need a new tax adviser.

Originally Posted by DOR

If you're paying 9.3% state tax on top of your federal tax, you need a new tax adviser.

That is California State income tax. I can't avoid it short of moving out of this state.

California (CA) Income Tax Rates and Tax Brackets 2011-2012