Thread: Safety Saws : the conundrum of how much should governments regulate

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

requiring decent insulation on wiring , brakes on cars, a certain level of crash safety, bumpers etc were all far more costly. The benefit outweighs the cost.

You are comparing brakes on cars to this? Brakes are an integral part of a car's operations, like a stop switch. This is not even like a seat belt.

The safety features you mentioned do not necessarily double the cost of the product. Also, enforcing adoption of a technology owned by a single company does not necessarily make good policy sense. I am not saying safety should not be pursued, but in this case forcing this particular (albeit very cool) piece of tech down the throats of consumers and manufacturers would be counterproductive. Companies which make basic, low end table saws will go belly up unless the cost comes down drastically and it won't since a single company owns the technology.

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

Saw stop is a great invention. Been following it for close to 7 years now. IMHO it should be on every table saw manufactured. Just as blade guards are now. I have it on 2 of my 3 table saws in the shop. The reason the other saw doesn't have it is because SawStop doesn't mesh well with pressure treated wood.

Tablesaws account for most of the power tool injuries. I would say that 90% of them would have been avoided if the factory blade guards had been in place. Just like the example in the story.

Sawstop is cheap insurance. Just wish my Workmans comp insurance company would give me a discount for having them. Although I will pay less because of injuries that don't happen.

This is why the technology should be available, but not mandated. It should be up to the buyer.

As you note, there are some cases where the technology doesn't function well- Pressure treated wood, probably high moisture contents, I'm sure there are some other materials that don't work well with it, like some foams and possibly plastics.

If I was buying a saw for home use, I wouldn't want it. I would want one quality machine with the ability to saw anything. Don't have the space for two saws. Or I would want a key-switch that could disable it when appropriate.

If I was buying it for a shop where employees would be operating the machine, I would want it as long as it wasn't prohibitively expensive.

The key to avoiding injury is using safe procedures. so whether or not a machine is equipped with certain safety features, one still has to follow the right work practices to avoid injuries. i.e saw stop isn't going to protect someone's eyes if they aren't wearing their safety glasses...

Bottom line is, workplace safety is a mindset- not a device.

When I first read it I thought it said "Safety Straws".

-dale

dale, you should invent the safety straw. you could prevent a lot of brain freezes with one of those things....

Originally Posted by highsea

dale, you should invent the safety straw. you could prevent a lot of brain freezes with one of those things....

The mandate will come down that it would be illegal to serve or drink anything that is colder than room temp. So ends the brain freeze....and a standard of living.

When I see all the "accidents" in the workplace I appreciate what my high school shop teacher taught me so long ago. First he used a table saw to launch a board into the wall. "That is why you don't stand there" Then he threw a slab of cheap steak in top of a piece of wood and showed us just how easily the saw cut it. We may have been invincible teenagers but we all knew that the table saw will take no prisoners nor will it give any second chances. the teacher did similar demonstrations with other power tools in the shop. When he was finished we knew just how quickly one of those tools can affect the rest of your life. Knowledge is better than a device any day.
My worry with this device is that it will invoke complacency. All it takes is a single incident where this device fails to work as advertised and another soul feels the pain for life. To be honest though, the skill saw scares me more as I have seen way more accidents with that from improper use. In construction you can use the tool correctly a thousand times but its the single time you don't that you will end up remembering the rest of your life. In the end though there is a line of diminishing returns when legislating safety devices for tools. At some point, all you end up doing is enabling a dumber population to use it and thus create even more problems. Instead of legislating devices I am more in favor of legislating knowledge. Make an owner/user pass a test via computer before getting a code that unlocks the tool. My line of thinking is if you are too stupid to pass a basic test on table saw safety, chain saw safety, etc, you should return said items back to the store and hire some one smarter to do the job. That would be much cheaper than a visit to the emergency room and possibly losing your livelihood for life.

The problem isn't so much the "Accidents in the workplace". Its the DIYer. Most who have never taken a shop class. But they have see a few episodes of Home make over. An that looks pretty easy. They didn't learn to respect the tools. The tools will teach them.

The guy that worked all day then comes home and does a little remodeling. Probably after a few beers to unwind. Thats who this saw is made for. Being tired and using power tools is a bad combination.

My line of thinking is if you are too stupid to pass a basic test on table saw safety, chain saw safety, etc, you should return said items back to the store and hire some one smarter to do the job. That would be much cheaper than a visit to the emergency room and possibly losing your livelihood for life.

I like your line of thinking. But we both know that isn't going to happen.

Highseas, It does come with a key to disable the stop feature.

Couple of options come to mind. Offer employers a small offset to install it - whatever the cost to taxpayers it will be less the the cost of the accidents over time. Alternatively (or perhaps in conjuction with 1), mandate it, but get the inventor to agree to a much shorter patent life - he still makes his money