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Thread: Wacko Left: US ''a leading purveyor and practitioner'' of torture; Arrest Bush

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    Ubi dubium ibi libertas Senior Contributor
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    Wacko Left: US ''a leading purveyor and practitioner'' of torture; Arrest Bush

    Bush, Other Top Officials Should Face Torture Probes, Says Amnesty; Urges Arrests if Warranted
    Abid Aslam
    OneWorld US
    Thu., May. 26, 2005

    WASHINGTON, D.C., May 26 (OneWorld) - Rights watchdog Amnesty International urged foreign governments Wednesday to investigate and prosecute President George W. Bush much as they once did former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet.

    ''If the United States permits the architects of torture policy to get off scot-free, then other nations should step into the breach,'' William Schulz, executive director of Amnesty International USA, said in a statement launching Amnesty's annual report.

    Bush is among a dozen former or current U.S. officials who should be probed by foreign governments because Washington has failed to conduct ''a genuinely independent and comprehensive investigation'' of torture allegations against U.S. troops, commanders, and their civilian overseers, Schulz said.

    Others on the Amnesty list of potential targets for investigation and prosecution include Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, and former Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) chief George Tenet.

    ''If the U.S. government continues to shirk its responsibility, Amnesty International calls on foreign governments to uphold their obligations under international law by investigating all senior U.S. officials involved in the torture scandal,'' Schulz said.

    ''If those investigations support prosecution, the governments should arrest any official who enters their territory and begin legal proceedings against them,'' he added. ''The apparent high-level architects of torture should think twice before planning their next vacation to places like Acapulco or the French Riviera because they may find themselves under arrest as Augusto Pinochet famously did in London in 1998.''

    Torture and other grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions amount to crimes against humanity and therefore all states have a responsibility to investigate and prosecute people responsible for them, Amnesty said in its 308-page report.

    The U.S. government had yet to respond to the Amnesty report Wednesday but Rumsfeld and others on the Amnesty list have strongly denied that they condoned torture or did anything wrong.

    Military officials and administration spokespersons have repeatedly and strenuously denied any policy promoting or tolerating torture and have said that allegations of abuses have resulted in dozens of investigations and a number of prosecutions and disciplinary actions.

    Some 125 such cases have been filed, Amnesty acknowledged, but it said they have involved only soldiers and their superiors in the field and have yet to trace lines of responsibility back to Washington. Characterizing this as a refusal to investigate, Schulz said it amounted, in effect, to ''tolerance'' for torture and mistreatment and warned that it would destroy U.S. credibility when Washington assails human rights violations by other governments, like those in Syria or Egypt.

    ''It is the height of hypocrisy for the U.S. government itself to use the very torture techniques that it routinely condemns in other countries,'' Schulz said. ''When the U.S. government then calls upon foreign leaders to bring to justice those who commit or authorize human rights violations in their own countries, why should those foreign leaders listen?''

    Amnesty's demand dovetails with a lawsuit by Human Rights First and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) alleging that Rumsfeld and others authorized torture-like interrogation techniques by U.S. troops at U.S bases in Afghanistan, Cuba, and Iraq.

    It also buttresses a campaign by non-governmental organizations demanding a full-scale independent probe of the prisoner abuse scandals modeled on the 9/11 Commission. That effort has brought together rights advocates of a liberal as well as conservative stripe, former Republican lawmakers, and retired military officers.

    The call for foreign governments to take action also coincided with the release by the ACLU Wednesday of documents that it said revealed that prisoners at the U.S. base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, complained that guards mistreated the Koran and in one incident, flushed a copy of the Muslim holy book down a toilet.

    The ACLU said it obtained the documents under court order from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and that they also provided accounts of beatings, sexual assaults, and hunger strikes.

    The revelations follow Newsweek's recent retraction of a report saying that government investigators had corroborated almost identical incidents involving the Koran. The magazine ultimately withdrew its story saying a confidential government source no longer could be confirmed.

    While Schulz singled out the United States as what he called ''a leading purveyor and practitioner'' of torture, Amnesty's report surveyed 149 countries and found that for the most part, 2004 had been a bleak year for human rights everywhere.

    http://us.oneworld.net/article/view/112144/1

    Who do these people think they are? They're punching way above their weight here. I'd love to see France or Belgium try to arrest President Bush next time he's there. I wonder if the Secret Service could defeat France all by itself.
    "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

    NEVER FORGET

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    I have never liked Amensty International, they seem to be pro Arab/Muslim and they seem to trump up charges

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    No more donations to Amensty International.

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    Ubi dubium ibi libertas Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteDreams
    No more donations to Amensty International.
    You were donating before?
    "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

    NEVER FORGET

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leader
    You were donating before?
    Twice approximately twenty bucks.

    They knocked on my door a few times and it'd had been awhile since I'd given anything to anyone so I'd figured why not them. I thought they we're on the up and up and at least my cash wouldn't go to pay for someone's two week vacation.

    I will have the satisfaction of telling them why I won't donate to them the next time they come asking.

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    Wow...and they wonder why the US hates giving them access to anything.

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    And what does A.I. have to say about how Al Qaeda treats its prisoners/hostages? I mean, c'mon, give me a break. These morons like to behead innocent human beings with knives to spread their terror. Some excesses in fighting them are inevitable, and any organized outcry against such excesses are a sad and silly joke.

    By the way, I heartily applaud the tactic of turning these cretins over to foreign intelligence services for "interrogation." It's just what they so richly deserve.

    America is doing the right thing here, World. The Abu Graib abuses were wrong, but should be--and have been--handled in a legal framework with criminal trials. If other countries don't have the guts to stand up and fight these morons, we'll just slog through and keep doing it ourselves. The shame here is on those who cave to them--such as the Spanish, French, and Germans, and--in the broader context of the Iraq invasion--Russia, with their collective hands drenched in the blood of Saddam-their-business-partner's victims.

    What the U.S. is doing is comparable to what the world should have done with Hitler's Nazism in 1930s Germany: go in and preemptively crush it, before it gets out of hand. For those of you too chicken-sh-t to have the guts to do it, the shame here is...

    YOURS.

    America has been, and remains, the glorious beacon of freedom in the world. Imperfect, yes; but also enduringly great. Our collective conscience in these matters is clear.

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    As far as AI is concerned, it's a matter of doing what you can. They cannot influence policy in dictatorships, but they can in free countries.

    Of course, that means they miss the point. The very fact that they can influence a nation means that that nation probably doesn't really need it.
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    Staff Emeritus Confed999's Avatar
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    Crazy, arrest people based on allegations by things that purposefully target children.
    No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
    I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
    even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
    He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger
    And what does A.I. have to say about how Al Qaeda treats its prisoners/hostages? I mean, c'mon, give me a break. These morons like to behead innocent human beings with knives to spread their terror. Some excesses in fighting them are inevitable, and any organized outcry against such excesses are a sad and silly joke.

    By the way, I heartily applaud the tactic of turning these cretins over to foreign intelligence services for "interrogation." It's just what they so richly deserve.

    America is doing the right thing here, World. The Abu Graib abuses were wrong, but should be--and have been--handled in a legal framework with criminal trials. If other countries don't have the guts to stand up and fight these morons, we'll just slog through and keep doing it ourselves. The shame here is on those who cave to them--such as the Spanish, French, and Germans, and--in the broader context of the Iraq invasion--Russia, with their collective hands drenched in the blood of Saddam-their-business-partner's victims.

    What the U.S. is doing is comparable to what the world should have done with Hitler's Nazism in 1930s Germany: go in and preemptively crush it, before it gets out of hand. For those of you too chicken-sh-t to have the guts to do it, the shame here is...

    YOURS.

    America has been, and remains, the glorious beacon of freedom in the world. Imperfect, yes; but also enduringly great. Our collective conscience in these matters is clear.
    Agree wholeheartidly. Way to break it down for what it is. Great Post.
    The purpose of all war is ultimately peace. - Saint Augustine
    For it tis' the doom of men that they forget. - Merlin the Magician
    The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger
    And what does A.I. have to say about how Al Qaeda treats its prisoners/hostages? I mean, c'mon, give me a break. These morons like to behead innocent human beings with knives to spread their terror. Some excesses in fighting them are inevitable, and any organized outcry against such excesses are a sad and silly joke.

    By the way, I heartily applaud the tactic of turning these cretins over to foreign intelligence services for "interrogation." It's just what they so richly deserve.

    America is doing the right thing here, World. The Abu Graib abuses were wrong, but should be--and have been--handled in a legal framework with criminal trials. If other countries don't have the guts to stand up and fight these morons, we'll just slog through and keep doing it ourselves. The shame here is on those who cave to them--such as the Spanish, French, and Germans, and--in the broader context of the Iraq invasion--Russia, with their collective hands drenched in the blood of Saddam-their-business-partner's victims.

    What the U.S. is doing is comparable to what the world should have done with Hitler's Nazism in 1930s Germany: go in and preemptively crush it, before it gets out of hand. For those of you too chicken-sh-t to have the guts to do it, the shame here is...

    YOURS.

    America has been, and remains, the glorious beacon of freedom in the world. Imperfect, yes; but also enduringly great. Our collective conscience in these matters is clear.

    At first I thought you tried being sarcastic but then I noticed that you are serious.

    Well then, never look back never admit mistakes always ahead there are no mistakes there can´t be failure....

    Would you suppot a war a war aginst the Iraq knowing what you know today?

    By the way in Afghanistan the US is/has been supported by many nations. As far as I know there are round about 3000 soldiers/miltary personel from Germany alone trying to suport the efforts of the US.

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    Ubi dubium ibi libertas Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sombra
    Would you suppot a war a war aginst the Iraq knowing what you know today?
    I would.
    "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

    NEVER FORGET

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    Staff Emeritus Julie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sombra
    Would you suppot a war a war aginst the Iraq knowing what you know today?

    By the way in Afghanistan the US is/has been supported by many nations. As far as I know there are round about 3000 soldiers/miltary personel from Germany alone trying to suport the efforts of the US.
    I do not recall an "Amnesty Report" being forwarded to the Saudi Regime after 9/11.....nor do I recall human's right violations in ANY report from ANY terrorists attack prior to, or since that time.

    So, if it's okay for Amnesty to brush terrorist attacks under the rug.....then I support the war on terror.....wherever it leads us to. Screw them.

  14. #14
    Ubi dubium ibi libertas Senior Contributor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie
    Screw them.
    Yep.
    "Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
    "The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"

    NEVER FORGET

  15. #15
    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sombra
    Would you suppot a war a war aginst the Iraq knowing what you know today?
    Hell yes.

    -dale

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