Thread: Health Care and other thoughts

Originally Posted by DOR

It is all about rationing scarce resources: money, or professional healthcare folks' time.

Here in Hong Kong, we have a terrific system that provides better-than-average American care (no Mayo Clinic, but not 3rd world, either) for US$12.25 a night, per hospital bed, and including the open-heart surgery. We pay for it out of taxes.

The single draw back is that there isn't enough "care" to go around – there never is, with a service that can be consumed nearly infinitely – and so some people will wait 6 weeks for an elective MRI. No body bleeds to death because they don’t have insurance.

That's what's happening in Canada and UK. Ration of care.

Our health care is expensive. No one denies that. On the other hand, no one dies in the waiting room due to an emergency. Well, one did, but that was a crooked hospital run by crooked politician using government funds.

Originally Posted by DOR

The system was being abused before the minimum fee was introduced, by (mostly) bored old folks who’d sit in the air conditioned waiting room all day, chatting with their friends. When the finally got to see a doctor, they’d complain about a sore back, and everyone knew the reason was that they’d been sitting in the waiting room all day.

So, the minimum fee came in about five years ago. Demand dropped 40%, and so did waiting times. Those who could just barely afford private care, and didn’t want to spend hours in the waiting room (an example of service rationing) started coming back to the public hospitals. Since they are the ones who are supposed to get public care, the system was working just fine.

It's all paid for by taxes, and now the government wants to introduce a "voluntary" healthcare insurance plan. I can't think of any reason why anyone who doesn't already have health insurance (and go to private physicians) would want to pay for using a near-free system, but that's the bureaucrats' best thinking.

Reality often intrudes on Utopia. Your expenses is getting higher and higher while revenue is getting lower and lower.

Remember, we have 320 million people to take care of. By far the biggest population base in the industrialized world. It's much harder to organize something large than something small. The overhead grows exponentially.

Originally Posted by gunnut

That's what's happening in Canada and UK. Ration of care.

Our health care is expensive. No one denies that. On the other hand, no one dies in the waiting room due to an emergency. Well, one did, but that was a crooked hospital run by crooked politician using government funds.



Reality often intrudes on Utopia. Your expenses is getting higher and higher while revenue is getting lower and lower.

Remember, we have 320 million people to take care of. By far the biggest population base in the industrialized world. It's much harder to organize something large than something small. The overhead grows exponentially.

economy of scale comes into play as well. A population of 320 million supports many more specialists. You think the British health service would be struggling if Brits paid 20 percent less than we pay per capita? I don't know where you get you people don't die IN ER therory from but it's kinda BS. A huge scandal in DC a few years ago becuse a child ended up diring from an abcessed tooth because he lacked coverage.....an abcess isnt life threatening evidently till it's damn near too late. We apy far more per capita and get the crappiest outcomes in the western world after we pay top dollar....period. Utopia isn't paying twice what France pays per capita and getting worse outcomes.

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

economy of scale comes into play as well. A population of 320 million supports many more specialists. You think the British health service would be struggling if Brits paid 20 percent less than we pay per capita? I don't know where you get you people don't die IN ER therory from but it's kinda BS. A huge scandal in DC a few years ago becuse a child ended up diring from an abcessed tooth because he lacked coverage.....an abcess isnt life threatening evidently till it's damn near too late. We apy far more per capita and get the crappiest outcomes in the western world after we pay top dollar....period. Utopia isn't paying twice what France pays per capita and getting worse outcomes.

That is NOT an emergency. When was the last time a tooth problem killed someone overnight? If you want to, you can pay for his dental surgery. I don't want to. I'll pay for the people I care about. You pay for the people you care about. Do not force me to pay for someone I don't know nor care.

Further to Hong Kong’s healthcare system—

1) Local students accepted into Hong Kong’s very good medical schools are guaranteed tuition scholarships. Foreign students pay, but not Stanford rates.

2) Every local student graduating with a medical degree is guaranteed a job offer at a government hospital. They don’t have to take it, but most do because the pay is good and they get some experience before deciding on a specialty or striking out on their own.

3) The government controls the amount spent by public hospitals on medicines and equipment (not to mention healthcare salaries). Some very expensive drugs are not available, and as noted earlier, the wait to use expensive equipment like an MRI can be long . . . if your doctor decides it is not a life-threatening situation.

4) Hong Kong operates an all-but-closed shop. If a Mayo Clinic professor wants to practice here, there’s a set of exams and an internship that need to be completed first. The usual response to why the market isn’t opened up more to qualified foreign practitioners is that the Cantonese language barrier is too great. This assumes that the 3-5% of population that isn’t Chinese, and the 20-30% that get by just fine in English can easily find an English-speaking doctor or nurse (true), and therefore the doctor’s monopoly is secure.

5) The notion that "I'll pay for the people I care about. You pay for the people you care about." is considered quite barbaric in a civilized society like Hong Kong.

Originally Posted by DOR

5) The notion that "I'll pay for the people I care about. You pay for the people you care about." is considered quite barbaric in a civilized society like Hong Kong.

The notion of "government control" is code word for communism in a free country like the USA.

Yeah, you're right gunnut.
Anything smacking of government in America is code for communism.

Ever consider who it was that decided on that particular code? My favorite candidate is the vast right-wing conspiracy, but I’m guessing you wouldn’t agree.

Which, makes me wonder if you really understand what “code” is all about.

Originally Posted by gunnut

That is NOT an emergency. When was the last time a tooth problem killed someone overnight? If you want to, you can pay for his dental surgery. I don't want to. I'll pay for the people I care about. You pay for the people you care about. Do not force me to pay for someone I don't know nor care.

Yeah, happens all the time Gunut. You just don't get real news because of your irrational hatred of that "lamestream media" Boy's Death Fuels Drives to Fund Dental Aid to Poor - washingtonpost.com So, your you will care for the people you care about kind offlies in the face of previous claims people get care at the ER. Thanks for beinbg clear this isnt about the most efficent health care delivery system or the best it's about returning to 19th century standards of morality.

Originally Posted by gunnut

The notion of "government control" is code word for communism in a free country like the USA.

yeah that's why social security and medicare are so hated right?

Originally Posted by gunnut

The notion of "government control" is code word for communism in a free country like the USA.

Are there other free countries by your criteria or just us? Somalia comes to mind there is no goverment control of anything. As far as healthcare what other nations are free?