Trump guarentees Obama landslide

**Roosveltrepub** · 18 Apr 11,, 23:22

Originally Posted by gunnut

How many people have actually seen the birth certificate?

Isn't it interesting that a "consensus" calling for him to show his real birth certificate is "denied" by supporters like you. I thought you're all about "consensus."

Why do you think He has it? he has a certificate of live birth which is what ha now issues to people making requests of proof of citizenship

The director of Hawaii's Department of Health, Chiyome Fukino, issued a statement confirming that the state held Obama's "original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures".[16][17] Noting "there have been numerous requests for Sen. Barack Hussein Obama's official birth certificate", Fukino explained that the department was prohibited by state law from releasing it to "persons who do not have a tangible interest in the vital record." She stated: "No state official, including Gov. Linda Lingle, has ever instructed that this vital record be handled in a manner different from any other vital record in the possession of the State of Hawaii."[16][36][37] According to CNN's researchers, the original birth certificate no longer exists, as Hawaii discarded all paper birth records in 2001, and the certification of live birth is the official copy.[38]

Contradicting CNN, Janice Okubo, public information officer for the Hawaii DOH, said "We don't destroy vital records."[39] The Health Department's director emphasized the assertion:

I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawai'i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai'i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai'i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008, over eight months ago.[40][39]

**Roosveltrepub** · 18 Apr 11,, 23:24

Originally Posted by gunnut

And also Trump said Bush was evil and should be impeached, and Obama could be the best president in the history of this nation.

Trump is a liberal plant.

nah He is just playing a populist on TV now and getting ready for his new season on tv. Being a republican is a great path to reality tv stardom

**Parihaka** · 18 Apr 11,, 23:33

Oh god it really is silly season isn't it. Roosie, my apologies: as long as you constrain it to the American politics section you can make as many assertions of racism or anything else you like. After all, everyone else is....

**Julie** · 18 Apr 11,, 23:50

Originally Posted by Parihaka

Oh god it really is silly season isn't it. Roosie, my apologies: as long as you constrain it to the American politics section you can make as many assertions of racism or anything else you like. After all, everyone else is....

Negative on that you Dirty Kiwi.

**Dreadnought** · 19 Apr 11,, 00:08

Originally Posted by Parihaka

I don't have my original birth certificate. My mum says it's around somewhere, she just can't find it, what with all the shifting around. The Dept. of births deaths and marriages were happy to issue me another one however.

Sure you do, didnt you see the heiroglyphs on the cave wall? Just kidding Kiwi.

**Gun Grape** · 19 Apr 11,, 00:42

Originally Posted by McFire

Good question. No, not if he was adopted by Lolo Soetero when he married Stanley Ann Dunham Obama. Then young Barry Soetero would be an Indonesian citizen.

Not in the eyes of the US government. he would still be a natural Born US citizen. Parents cannot renounce the citizenship of their minor children.

From the DoS website

F. RENUNCIATION FOR MINOR CHILDREN

Parents cannot renounce U.S. citizenship on behalf of their minor children. Before an oath of renunciation will be administered under Section 349(a)(5) of the INA, a person under the age of eighteen must convince a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer that he/she fully understands the nature and consequences of the oath of renunciation, is not subject to duress or undue influence, and is voluntarily seeking to renounce his/her U.S. citizenship.

Birthers need to either, show 6yr old Obamas Oath of Renunciation. Which isn't going to happen. Or get off the "Stupid train" and admit he has every right to hold the Office to which he was elected.

He showed his Birth Certificate. The legal one issued by the State of hawaii. Not the hospital form that doesn't have legal standing. Something that no other President has ever done , nor been asked to do.

**Gun Grape** · 19 Apr 11,, 00:44

Why has the President ignored the Birthers? Here is why. It nails the "arguments" and shows why the birther movement will not go away.

Birther: "Oh why won't Barack Obama release his birth certificate? If only he did that simple little thing, we could put this whole matter to rest. And it would only cost him ten dollars."

Rational Person (RP): "Didn't you see the birth certificate he posted online?"

Birther: "Anyone could have Photoshopped that. In fact, I saw an anonymous guy on the internet claim that he could prove it was faked. He's an expert in 'instructional media.'"

RP: "You do realize that 'instructional media' doesn't have anything to do with document analysis, right?"

Birther: "Regardless, it's still fake. If Obama truly had nothing to hide, he'd release his long-form birth certificate, not this computer printout."

RP: "How should he release it? If he simply posted a scan online, wouldn't you accuse it of being faked?"

Birther: "Oh, certainly. Anything he produces shouldn't be trusted unless it's reviewed by a competent authority, like a judge."

RP: "So if Obama obtained his long-form birth certificate, published it, had a judge review it, and then the judge announced that it was legit and he was born in Hawaii, that would be enough? You'd give up arguing that his election is illegitimate, stop filing lawsuits, and concede that he's eligible to be President?"

Birther: "Hardly. For all we know, Obama's parents could have lied to Hawaiian officials, and claimed he was born in Hawaii, when he was actually born in Kenya. Or Canada. For all we know, Hawaiian officials themselves might be in on the cover-up."

RP: "What if it can be proven beyond a doubt that the birth certificate is real and accurate, and that he was born in Hawaii. Let's say there's a video of John F. Kennedy himself playing midwife to Ann Dunham. Would that settle the matter?"

Birther: "It'd settle the matter of where he was born. But that doesn't mean he's a natural-born citizen and eligible to be President."

RP: "Why?"

Birther: "Because before he was born, his mother married a British citizen. That means she gave up her American citizenship even before he was born. And Obama can't be a natural-born citizen if neither of his parents were American citizens."

RP: "So you're begging Obama to release his birth certificate, even though you admit it won't actually stop your complaints."

Birther: "That's right."

RP: "Well, what if I can show you that American citizens don't give up their American citizenship when they marry foreigners? Will that put this to rest?"

Birther: "Oh, no. Even if I accepted that he was born in Hawaii, and that his mother was still an American citizen, his father was still a Kenyan and British citizen, and that means Obama inherited dual citizenship and thus wasn't a natural-born citizen. So he can't be President."

RP: "I see. For the sake of argument, then, let's say that I could show you that there's no requirement that a natural-born citizen be born of two U.S. citizens. Would that satisfy you?"

Birther: "Sorry, but no. Even if the birth certificate proves he was born in Hawaii, and he could show that his mother was a U.S. citizen when he was born, and that his father's citizenship didn't disqualify him, there's still the matter of Indonesia."

RP: "What does Indonesia have to do with anything?"

Birther: "When Obama's mother married Lolo Soetoro, she gave up her U.S. citizenship, and by proxy, Obama's U.S. citizenship. So he can't be President."

RP: "No, it doesn't work that way. Didn't we already cover this with her first marriage?"

Birther: "It doesn't matter. Even if her marriage didn't invalidate his citizenship, when Obama was adopted by Lolo Soetoro, he ceased to be a U.S. natural-born citizen. So he can't be President."

RP: "A minor child can't surrender his U.S. citizenship that way. Besides, there's no evidence that he was adopted in the first place."

Birther: "Even if that's the case, he's still not in the clear. Because when he traveled to Pakistan in 1981 on his Indonesian passport, he gave up his U.S. citizenship."

RP: "Apart from the fact that that wouldn't have sacrificed his citizenship, do you actually have any direct evidence that he in fact did use an Indonesian passport?"

Birther: "Not direct evidence. But American passport holders weren't allowed into Pakistan in 1981."

RP: "Do you have any evidence that that is actually true about travel to Pakistan in 1981?"

Birther: "No."

RP: "I see. OK, if you put aside the passport, would you concede that he's eligible to be President?"

Birther: "Still no. When Obama was adopted, his name was legally changed to 'Barry Soetoro.' There's no proof he ever changed his name back, but he ran for President as 'Barack Obama.' And that violates election law. I will never accept his Presidency until I see the documentation where he changed his name back to Obama."

RP: "That's impossible. How can he possibly produce that documentation, when he never changed his name away from Obama in the first place? What proof is there that he was ever legally adopted or changed his name? And even if he was adopted, what possible reason would there be to legally change his first name to a nickname?"

Birther: "A school application in Indonesia says his last name was 'Soetoro.' They take those applications very seriously in Indonesia, so this is solid legal proof that he was adopted and had a name change."

RP: "And the fact that the same application says he was born in Hawaii?"

Birther: "That was a mistake."

RP: "OK, so to recap, you wanted Obama to release a birth certificate, but when he did, you accused it of being a forgery? Right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And you say that if he simply shared his long-form birth certificate with the public, that could be forged too? Right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "So you want him to release his long-form birth certificate and to have that birth certificate reviewed by a judge, to satisfy his critics and answer the questions they're asking? Right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if the judge affirms that the birth certificate is legitimate and it says his place of birth was Hawaii, you say it might be falsified, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And even if he proves he was born in Hawaii, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his mother's first marriage, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that the marriage isn't an issue, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his father's citizenship, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that his father's citizenship isn't an issue, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his mother's second marriage, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that his mother's second marriage isn't an issue, you claim he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his supposed adoption, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that he didn't give up his citizenship via adoption, you claim that he's still not a natural-born citizen because of his 1981 travel to Pakistan, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "And if he then proves that he didn't give up his citizenship via passport, and even when you run out of citizenship arguments completely, you then claim his election is illegitimate because his legal surname is Soetoro, right?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "So you want to know why Obama won't take the simple measure of releasing his birth certificate, when you already have at least eight consecutive fall-back arguments you'll make if he does so, whereby you'll continue to insist that he's ineligible for the Presidency even after he proves that he was born in Hawaii?"

Birther: "Right."

RP: "Y'know, if I were Obama, I think I'd save my ten dollars too."

**Gun Grape** · 19 Apr 11,, 01:06

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Isn't US passports the property of the US Government and therefore, cannot be used as personal property. In short, don't you need the Freedom of Information Act to see it and not just Obama's permission?

Yes you do. Obama would not have possession of his old passports. I had to mail my old expired one in with the application for the new one. Also had to surrender my blue one when I got my fancy red one way back when.

**gunnut** · 19 Apr 11,, 01:26

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

Why has the President ignored the Birthers? Here is why. It nails the "arguments" and shows why the birther movement will not go away.

If he had released his long form birth certificate, and then the birthers are still unsatisfied, then it would be on them.

As of now, Obama's refusal just makes him look like he's hiding something. If he has it and doesn't have anything to hide, why not show it to put the ball in the birther's court?

**gunnut** · 19 Apr 11,, 01:29

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

He showed his Birth Certificate. The legal one issued by the State of hawaii. Not the hospital form that doesn't have legal standing. Something that no other President has ever done , nor been asked to do.

The "certificate of live birth" is the official document? How does one get one?

No other president has ever been asked to show his birth certificate because they have shown it already while being a candidate?

Why is this "transparent" president so mysterious?

**gunnut** · 19 Apr 11,, 01:31

Originally Posted by Gun Grape

Yes you do. Obama would not have possession of his old passports. I had to mail my old expired one in with the application for the new one. Also had to surrender my blue one when I got my fancy red one way back when.

I think I did that too, but then the State Department send the old one back (with a hole punched through it) along with the new one. Let me look in my safe to see if I have them. Of course I won't show them to you. You will have to take my word for it.

**Roosveltrepub** · 19 Apr 11,, 01:36

Originally Posted by gunnut

Lots of things have historical significance and lots of things are stupid. Calling a black man a monkey is about the same as calling a white man a racist. It has historical significance.

Guess what? If Obama had released his full birth certificate, none of this would happen. It would be a non-issue. So it's actually Obama's fault. Don't liberal socialists always blame the victim and never the crook?

S I L L Y S E A S O N

A white man is to a racist like a black man is to a monkey

I don't get the correlation. Are you saying some white people are racists and some blacks monkeys? I dont think you meant that but come on next you will tell me that watermelons on the white house lawn email wasnt racist because George Washingtom like cherries. Liberals blame the victim? Could you please back up that ridiculous flame baiting?

**Roosveltrepub** · 19 Apr 11,, 01:37

Originally Posted by gunnut

The "certificate of live birth" is the official document? How does one get one?

No other president has ever been asked to show his birth certificate because they have shown it already while being a candidate?

Why is this "transparent" president so mysterious?

His birth is only mysterious to the illiterate. The courts tossed all the suits for a reason

**Roosveltrepub** · 19 Apr 11,, 01:40

Originally Posted by Parihaka

Oh god it really is silly season isn't it. Roosie, my apologies: as long as you constrain it to the American politics section you can make as many assertions of racism or anything else you like. After all, everyone else is....

That was actually the point I was making when I called for people to use the search funcyion

I won't though other than to gunut who has race in every third post

**Gun Grape** · 19 Apr 11,, 01:40

Originally Posted by gunnut

The "certificate of live birth" is the official document? How does one get one?

Its the one issued by the State. Not the one issued by the hospital. The one that, on the bottom of the Hawaiian one, states "This copy serves as Prima Facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court Proceedings."

My NC birth certificate from 1963 doesn't have the hospital, doctor or any of the other things birthers are demanding from the Presidents Birth Certificate. Does that mean that I wasn't really born in North Carolina?

No other president has ever been asked to show his birth certificate because they have shown it already while being a candidate?

No. Did you see Reagans? Bush? Clintons? Bush 2? No you didn't. Obama is the only candidate (when he released it) to show his birth certificate/Certification of live birth

Why is this "transparent" president so mysterious?

He isn't any more mysterious than any of his predecessors. Why is it more important to demand that he show records, many that he has no control over, that were not demanded of any other candidate or President?