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Thread: So...who here is STILL proud to be a Democrat?

  1. #91
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Hunter View Post
    May I remind you that the involvement in WW2, Korea and Vietnam was begun by Democratic Presidents?
    WW2 - 400,000 dead American soldiers, concentration camps for American citizens because their skin color was yellowish

    Korean War - 30k? 50k dead American soldiers and the war is technically still on

    Vietnam - try to defend that one

    In fact, all the wars America involved in over the last 100 years have been started either by a democrat or a Bush )

    Democrats lead the Bushes in body count by a margin of 600K to 5k.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  2. #92
    New Member wb5scx's Avatar
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    Right on the Money

    Amen!
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesman View Post
    Big Government

    This will be explosive. It concerns the same organization that Obama used to train, has used to get out the vote even after it was proven that they did so fraudulently, has steered an unbelievable windfall of almost $8 BILLION dollars of stimulus money toward even though it has been under investigation all across the country...

    It is a criminal enterprise. Obama is an ally, an employer, a benefactor and a protector of what has just been shown to be an organization so immoral that it would assist in tax fraud, sexual slavery, child prostitution, human tarfficking, and about a hundred other crimes.

    THIS is the window into the President's soul. You didn't want to see it when it was just his idolization of the most destructive campus hard-Left radical, Alinsky. You ignored his 20-year close relationship to his spiritual guide and the man he entrusted his children's religious education to, the racist hater Wright. You rejected as meaningless the launch of his political career in the living room of an admitted domestic terrorist and an unrepentant communist, Ayers. And finally, as if there were any further proof needed that we know the character of the man that has tried so hard to hide it from us - and succeeded, at least among the willfully blind - we have an entire Cabinet's-worth of appointments that are working diligently to destroy the country from within: communists, tax cheats, moral failures of every kind.

    Well, like the man said...you won. He's your guy. Own it. Take responsibility for what you've done to your country, and if you're STILL proud to be a Democrat, after everything that we now know about Barack Obama and the associations he's made...you are exactly what I conceive a Democrat to be.

    And that's no compliment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    WW2 - 400,000 dead American soldiers, concentration camps for American citizens because their skin color was yellowish

    Korean War - 30k? 50k dead American soldiers and the war is technically still on

    Vietnam - try to defend that one

    In fact, all the wars America involved in over the last 100 years have been started either by a democrat or a Bush )

    Democrats lead the Bushes in body count by a margin of 600K to 5k.
    GN

    This is too crass and beneath you...you do no credit to yourself.

    Do you really mean that we should not have been involved in WW II or Korea?

    You do realize that the involvement in Viet Nam began and ended in Republican Administrations, right? And that Earl Warren, who interned the the Nisei, was elected as a Republican?

    Isolationism has not done us any good in the past decade.
    Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is to know to not use it in a fruit salad.

  4. #94
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesman View Post
    and be Sugar Daddy to all students that do not have independent means of going to college.
    Maybe I'm a bit biased because I only recently emerged from the college world, but it seems to me that investment in college education is a practice that pays dividends in the form of higher tax receipts. I.E., it's not a money-sink.

  5. #95
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    WW2 - 400,000 dead American soldiers, concentration camps for American citizens because their skin color was yellowish

    Korean War - 30k? 50k dead American soldiers and the war is technically still on

    Vietnam - try to defend that one

    In fact, all the wars America involved in over the last 100 years have been started either by a democrat or a Bush )

    Democrats lead the Bushes in body count by a margin of 600K to 5k.
    We didn't start any major 20th century wars. We intervened. WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam, all interventions in ongoing conflicts.

    World War II and Korea were worth the sacrifice made. Those soldiers didn't die in vain. The hugely positive results speak for themselves. Vietnam was a political conflict fought as a military endeavor. If we'd run it more like the British did during the Malayan insurgency I think it would have turned out better. It's regrettable it didn't.

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    Senior Contributor Bigfella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Maybe I'm a bit biased because I only recently emerged from the college world, but it seems to me that investment in college education is a practice that pays dividends in the form of higher tax receipts. I.E., it's not a money-sink.
    Correct weight Ironduke. From this week's Economist (check out the link, it has a REALLY cool graph comparing benefits to the individual & taxpayer in some industrial nations - the US does very well):

    Higher education and the recession: It still pays to study | The Economist


    Higher education and the recession

    It still pays to study
    Sep 10th 2009
    From The Economist print edition

    Not the panacea it is billed as, but the best hope for this year’s school-leavers


    THE law of supply and demand tells you that increasing the quantity of something tends to reduce its price. But not, it seems, in higher education. That is the puzzle on display in “Education at a Glance”, the annual research compendium published by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), a Paris-based think-tank for the industrialised world. “Every year we wonder if this will be the year that higher education starts to lose its value—and every year, there is no sign of it happening,” says Andreas Schleicher, the OECD’s chief of education research.

    The newly published edition shows ever more rich-world school-leavers gaining higher qualifications: only a fifth in 1995 and almost twice that in 2007, the latest year the OECD has studied. Mr Schleicher says that there are already more graduates than he thought were needed only five years ago. Yet despite the vastly greater supply, employers still reward them well for the time and money they invest.

    “Education at a Glance” is a good guide for governments wanting to copy other countries’ homework. The recession gives its findings new urgency. Since much of the cost of higher education is forgone earnings, its advantages are even clearer at a time when jobs are scarce.

    The OECD’s answer is simple: the more education, the better. Taking into account tuition fees, lost earnings while studying and extra taxes paid, a male graduate is still $82,000 better off (see chart) in net present value terms than one whose education ended with the equivalent of a high-school diploma. (Women graduates benefit, but by less, since they work and earn less.) Figures show that, so far, the taxpayer has gained too, by more than $50,000 per graduate, even after subtracting the public funds that helped to pay for their studies.

    Potential students are applying for university in record numbers. But supply has failed to grow in step. Cash-strapped American states are slashing public universities’ budgets. Private colleges’ endowments’ have shrivelled. That means cutting posts, salaries and aid to students.

    In Britain taxpayers still pay much of the cost of undergraduate education. So universities are forbidden to “over-recruit”. This autumn they turned away 40,000 applicants whose grades would normally have got them into university. And in pretty much every country where taxpayers pay for higher education, new students will find teaching is skimpier.

    A country can still waste its graduates, notes Mr Schleicher. He cites Spain, where the returns to a degree have fallen significantly in recent years. “The labour market did not adapt to utilise these new skilled workers,” he says. But some doubt the intrinsic connection between higher education and growth. Alison Wolf of King’s College London, the author of a book provocatively entitled “Does Education Matter?” says a big reason why school-leavers go to university is peer pressure. With many graduates to choose from, employers increasing turn up their noses at anyone who does not sport a degree, no matter what the job’s requirements. The result is more akin to an arms race, with everyone running to stand still, than a recipe for increasing prosperity.

    A degree signals prior ability as well as the skills that have been learnt, she notes; and returns to education depend partly on a country’s labour-market structures. “Danish degrees look less valuable than American ones, but Denmark is one of the world’s most successful economies. Are Danish graduates really less skilled than American ones? Or is it that Danes tolerate lower pay differentials and higher taxes?”

    For would-be students now, such debates are, literally, academic. When the jobs market finally picks up, many will be poorly placed. The young unemployed all too easily become the long-term unemployable. Make-work schemes mop up some of the jobless, but may blot a curriculum vitae. Time at university, however ill-spent, does not. So it may be worth rethinking the wisdom of ever-expanding higher education. But not this year.
    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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    Quote Originally Posted by highsea View Post
    It's also worth noting that until one or the other of the bills are reconciled and signed into law by Obama, ACORN is still eligible for and receiving money from the Federal Government. So this one is not over yet.
    Whose betting he vetoes it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesman View Post
    Sounds good. Send me addies, and I send a Hamilton to each.
    I'll send you my phone # and I want mine in bar credit at whatever establishment we meet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesman View Post
    Part of a pattern.
    Been seein' it, been preachin' it, everyone thinks I'm overreacting. I don't.

  10. #100
    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluesman
    Well, like the man said...you won. He's your guy. Own it. Take responsibility for what you've done to your country, and if you're STILL proud to be a Democrat, after everything that we now know about Barack Obama and the associations he's made...you are exactly what I conceive a Democrat to be.
    What is your conception of a Democrat? The identities of the two parties has been something that's been in a continual state of flux since they were brought into creation. It's only in rather recent years that their identities have solidified, with the left and right wings being staked out respectively and each of them fighting to win the center.

    For most of the 20th century (as well as the latter 19th century) the Democratic Party had a liberal northern wing and a conservative southern wing (the so-called "base" of the Republican Party today), with neither side in a real ascendancy until the liberal wing became dominant in the 1970s. The Republican Party had its liberals, and plenty of them until the 1970s as well.

    Look at these maps. 1924, 1952, and 1976. Blue states are Democratic, red states Republican. Have the core political beliefs of the regions actually inverted? Even if your assessment were correct, you act as if the Democratic Party has been some monolithic, unchanging entity for the duration of its existence.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    What is your conception of a Democrat? The identities of the two parties has been something that's been in a continual state of flux since they were brought into creation. It's only in rather recent years that their identities have solidified, with the left and right wings being staked out respectively and each of them fighting to win the center.
    But todays Democrats have literally become socialist, and some more resembling Marxists. The Republican party has played so much to the center, that they make JFK look like a conservative, and that is why I think we are seeing so many Libertarians and Constitutionalists these days. I am leaving the GOP for the same reason Reagan left the Dem party years ago. When asked, he said as I say now, "I didn't leave the Dem party, it left me".

    I didn't leave the GOP, they left me. There are still quite a few in the GOP that want to take it back, many of them right here on the WAB, but I really don't see it happening. The RINOs and NEOcons have done just too much damage, IMO.

    For most of the 20th century (as well as the latter 19th century) the Democratic Party had a liberal northern wing and a conservative southern wing (the so-called "base" of the Republican Party today), with neither side in a real ascendancy until the liberal wing became dominant in the 1970s. The Republican Party had its liberals, and plenty of them until the 1970s as well.
    Southern Democrats have always been way different than Northern Democrats. The Southern ones just bought the bill of goods, not knowing they where getting screwed.

    Look at these maps. 1924, 1952, and 1976. Blue states are Democratic, red states Republican. Have the core political beliefs of the regions actually inverted?
    Not inverted, ref first reply.
    Even if your assessment were correct, you act as if the Democratic Party has been some monolithic, unchanging entity for the duration of its existence.
    I think they have been pretty much Socialist leaning all the time, IMO.

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    7th,

    But todays Democrats have literally become socialist, and some more resembling Marxists.
    FDR and LBJ were considerably to the left of even the left-wing dems of today.

    The Republican party has played so much to the center, that they make JFK look like a conservative,
    again, eisenhower republicanism had similar policy platforms to the slightly left-wing/centrist democrats of today. even nixon would be considered a democrat today. it was only with first goldwater and later reagan that republicans shifted rightward. bill clinton's third way would have been to the economic right of the Republican Party prior to the 1980s.

    and that is why I think we are seeing so many Libertarians and Constitutionalists these days. I am leaving the GOP for the same reason Reagan left the Dem party years ago. When asked, he said as I say now, "I didn't leave the Dem party, it left me".
    i would say because the principles of libertarianism go up against the social conservatives that dominate so much of southern-state Republicanism.

    I didn't leave the GOP, they left me. There are still quite a few in the GOP that want to take it back, many of them right here on the WAB, but I really don't see it happening. The RINOs and NEOcons have done just too much damage, IMO.
    ironically it is the RINOs that have been closer to the republican party's historical median than the dyed-in-the-wool social conservatives today. even the so-called fiscal conservatives have been mostly taken over by those who champion lower taxes at the cost of a burgeoning debt crisis.

    in my view, the Republican Party has been unduly influenced by those whom are not in the least conservatives. neo-conservatives whom advocate a radical mix of wooly-headed democracy promotion and american power, Club of Growth conservatives whom advocate radical tax slashing with no regard for debt, populist social conservatives whom want to change the republic into a semi-theocracy.

    all with a veneer of anti-intellectual populism that scream about knocking down the elites, even though conservatism has traditionally been about embracing the opportunity for all to become successful.
    The human mind cannot grasp the causes of phenomena in the aggregate. But the need to find these causes is inherent in man’s soul. And the human intellect, without investigating the multiplicity and complexity of the conditions of phenomena, any one of which taken separately may seem to be the cause, snatches at the first, the most intelligible approximation to a cause, and says: “This is the cause!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by astralis View Post
    7th,



    FDR and LBJ were considerably to the left of even the left-wing dems of today.



    again, eisenhower republicanism had similar policy platforms to the slightly left-wing/centrist democrats of today. even nixon would be considered a democrat today. it was only with first goldwater and later reagan that republicans shifted rightward. bill clinton's third way would have been to the economic right of the Republican Party prior to the 1980s.



    i would say because the principles of libertarianism go up against the social conservatives that dominate so much of southern-state Republicanism.



    ironically it is the RINOs that have been closer to the republican party's historical median than the dyed-in-the-wool social conservatives today. even the so-called fiscal conservatives have been mostly taken over by those who champion lower taxes at the cost of a burgeoning debt crisis.

    in my view, the Republican Party has been unduly influenced by those whom are not in the least conservatives. neo-conservatives whom advocate a radical mix of wooly-headed democracy promotion and american power, Club of Growth conservatives whom advocate radical tax slashing with no regard for debt, populist social conservatives whom want to change the republic into a semi-theocracy.

    all with a veneer of anti-intellectual populism that scream about knocking down the elites, even though conservatism has traditionally been about embracing the opportunity for all to become successful.
    I would say your pretty much nailed it all right there
    Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is to know to not use it in a fruit salad.

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    And I'd say neither one of you have the least notion of what animates a 'movement' conservative.
    "The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
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    Y'all still following the ACORN story - the one that inspired this lovely thread? Well, the awesomeness continues to be so awesome that I still want to dip my balls in it.

    And there's more coming.

    Democrats, meet me back here on Wednesday, because there's going to be ANOTHER nuke that you'll somehow have to attempt to justify or explain away.

    It's fun to be a conservative right now. Again.

    )
    "The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
    - George Orwell

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