Your thoughts on the White House's request to send fishy emails on National healthcar

**LMA** · 05 Aug 09,, 22:15

So this was posted at Whitehouse.gov yesterday.
The White House - Blog Post - Facts Are Stubborn Things.. and my first thought was this reminds me of the old U.S.S.R. tactics.

"There is a lot of disinformation about health insurance reform out there, spanning from control of personal finances to end of life care. These rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation. Since we can’t keep track of all of them here at the White House, we’re asking for your help. If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

Read this letter by Senator Cornyn of Texas and I think he asks legtimate questiosn.. what is going to be done with the info?

Dear President Obama,

I write to express my concern about a new White House program to monitor American citizens' speech opposing your health care policies, and to seek your assurances that this program is being carried out in a manner consistent with the First Amendment and America's tradition of free speech and public discourse.

Yesterday, in an official White House release entitled "Facts are Stubborn Things," the White House Director of New Media, Macon Phillips, asserted that there was "a lot of disinformation out there," and encouraged citizens to report "fishy" speech opposing your health care policies to the White House. Phillips specifically targeted private, unpublished, even casual speech, writing that "rumors often travel just below the surface via chain emails or through casual conversation." Phillips wrote "If you get an email or see something on the web about health insurance reform that seems fishy, send it to flag@whitehouse.gov."

I am not aware of any precedent for a President asking American citizens to report their fellow citizens to the White House for pure political speech that is deemed "fishy" or otherwise inimical to the White House's political interests.

By requesting that citizens send "fishy" emails to the White House, it is inevitable that the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and private speech of U.S. citizens will be reported to the White House. You should not be surprised that these actions taken by your White House staff raise the specter of a data collection program. As Congress debates health care reform and other critical policy matters, citizen engagement must not be chilled by fear of government monitoring the exercise of free speech rights.

I can only imagine the level of justifiable outrage had your predecessor asked Americans to forward emails critical of his policies to the White House. I suspect that you would have been leading the charge in condemning such a program--and I would have been at your side denouncing such heavy-handed government action.

So I urge you to cease this program immediately. At the very least, I request that you detail to Congress and the public the protocols that your White House is following to purge the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and identities of citizens who are reported to have engaged in "fishy" speech. And I respectfully request an answer to the following:

· How do you intend to use the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and identities of citizens who are reported to have engaged in "fishy" speech?
· How do you intend to notify citizens who have been reported for "fishy" speech?
· What action do you intend to take against citizens who have been reported for engaging in "fishy" speech?
· Do your own past statements qualify as "disinformation"? For example, is it "disinformation" to note that in 2003 you said: "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care plan"?

I look forward to your prompt response.

Sincerely,

JOHN CORNYN

United States Senator

So does anybody else think like me that this is just wrong for the request to come from the White House?

**gunnut** · 05 Aug 09,, 22:38

I've said this before, 1984 was 25 years early.

**antimony** · 05 Aug 09,, 23:52

The Senator poses a strawman claim. He claims that the White House intends to do the following:

Collect and use the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and identities of citizens who are reported to have engaged in "fishy" speech
"notify" citizens who have been reported for "fishy" speech
intends to take against citizens who have been reported for engaging in "fishy" speech

That is the scaremonger way to look at it. I believe its also disingenuous since the President can't do jack even if someone burns an effigy of him in public.

Another way to look at it may be that the White House wants to find out objection to the plan and then put out statements addressing those objections.

The Senator could simply have asked what the White House wanted to do. Instead he assumed that the White House would do the former and then asked why, how etc.

The Senator is also a bleeding hypocrite. This is what he had said in 2005 - "None of your civil liberties matter much after you're dead", in a speech supporting the PATRIOT ACT.

**Roosveltrepub** · 06 Aug 09,, 01:44

The only thing I have seen fishy is small groups shouting down any attempt at discussion on healthcare. Classic Brownshirt tactics to prevent a real public discourse. The letter is just more fear mongering. z

**LMA** · 06 Aug 09,, 03:01

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

The only thing I have seen fishy is small groups shouting down any attempt at discussion on healthcare. Classic Brownshirt tactics to prevent a real public discourse. The letter is just more fear mongering. z

And I've seen The House majority whip say at a meeting with the public if you are opposing this you don't know the facts... that's a discussion ? LOL

Like anybody can't be against this trillion dollar monstrosity... but unlike you I have no desire to see a single payor helath care system.

And Barbara Boxer saying they are well dressed, that means they are organized ? Huh ?

**LMA** · 06 Aug 09,, 03:09

Originally Posted by antimony

Another way to look at it may be that the White House wants to find out objection to the plan and then put out statements addressing those objections.

The Senator could simply have asked what the White House wanted to do. Instead he assumed that the White House would do the former and then asked why, how etc..

I disagree, I think the Senator did ask what they intended to do with that information. And it's incredibly unprecedented for the White House to ask citizens to report fellow citizens for free speech !

**antimony** · 06 Aug 09,, 03:36

Originally Posted by LMA

And I've seen The House majority whip say at a meeting with the public if you are opposing this you don't know the facts... that's a discussion ? LOL

Like anybody can't be against this trillion dollar monstrosity... but unlike you I have no desire to see a single payor helath care system.

And Barbara Boxer saying they are well dressed, that means they are organized ? Huh ?

I am sure all of your comments are excellent reasons against the single payer system, but this thread is not about the proposed Healthcare package.

This is about the hypocrite John Cornyn trying to prevent the White House from gauging negative sentiment about their proposition and then trying to address it, under the guise of civil rights. Why is he a hypocrite? Because he has been one of the strongest proponents of government interference against civil rights through the PATRIOT ACT/wire tap program and the TIPS program.

Lets talk more about that

Why can't Cornyn simply ask the White House how it would deal with the information? Why does he needs to assume a bunch of stuff that he thinks (or wants others to think) and then ask why?

**antimony** · 06 Aug 09,, 03:40

Originally Posted by LMA

I disagree, I think the Senator did ask what they intended to do with that information. And it's incredibly unprecedented for the White House to ask citizens to report fellow citizens for free speech !

This is what he wrote, read the highlighted parts:

By requesting that citizens send "fishy" emails to the White House, it is inevitable that the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and private speech of U.S. citizens will be reported to the White House. You should not be surprised that these actions taken by your White House staff raise the specter of a data collection program. As Congress debates health care reform and other critical policy matters, citizen engagement must not be chilled by fear of government monitoring the exercise of free speech rights.

I can only imagine the level of justifiable outrage had your predecessor asked Americans to forward emails critical of his policies to the White House. I suspect that you would have been leading the charge in condemning such a program--and I would have been at your side denouncing such heavy-handed government action.

So I urge you to cease this program immediately. At the very least, I request that you detail to Congress and the public the protocols that your White House is following to purge the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and identities of citizens who are reported to have engaged in "fishy" speech. And I respectfully request an answer to the following:

· How do you intend to use the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and identities of citizens who are reported to have engaged in "fishy" speech?
· How do you intend to notify citizens who have been reported for "fishy" speech?
· What action do you intend to take against citizens who have been reported for engaging in "fishy" speech?

So he has already decided that the White House is going to collect names and email addresses, purge the fishy material and then take action against them.

So, disagree all you want, its not cutting it

**LMA** · 06 Aug 09,, 05:16

Originally Posted by antimony

This is what he wrote, read the highlighted parts:

So he has already decided that the White House is going to collect names and email addresses, purge the fishy material and then take action against them.

So, disagree all you want, its not cutting it

The white house will get that infomation with forwarded correspondence. The Senator asked what they would do with the information. These are all questions...

"How do you intend to use the names, email addresses, IP addresses, and identities of citizens who are reported to have engaged in "fishy" speech?
How do you intend to notify citizens who have been reported for "fishy" speech?What action do you intend to take against citizens who have been reported for engaging in "fishy" speech? "

What government asks it's citizens to send "fishy" personal correspondence from other citizens to them? A democratic republic these days... amazingly !! This is on the website of the Executive Branch of the US government... simply mind boggling to me.

**~~SnowLeopard~~** · 06 Aug 09,, 07:19

Originally Posted by gunnut

I've said this before, 1984 was 25 years early.

Well, not quite.

An objection I had with "America's Most Wanted" was that it essentially turned people into informants. Good reason or not, we now have that population which has been in place since the early 90's.
_______________________________
("That lousy underground newspaper knows every dirty trick I do! There must be an informant but we'll fix him, I'll bring in Enforcer Butcher!"--the King to Rodney
"Is that Butcher with one T or two?"--Rodney writing it down secretly, (w,stte), "The Wizard of Id")

**~~pate~~** · 06 Aug 09,, 07:26

I'm reporting the lot of you (and myself I suppose) immediately!

**antimony** · 06 Aug 09,, 08:33

Originally Posted by pate

I'm reporting the lot of you (and myself I suppose) immediately!

We might even get to have beer with the President after he calls us in to discuss our objections

**Dreadnought** · 06 Aug 09,, 14:19

I find it laughable knowing that during the elections both sides used the internet to defame each other and now they want to use the net to report things that go against their policy.

)

**Chunder** · 06 Aug 09,, 14:45

This weeks issue of TIME had no less than 3 articles on the administrations approach to health care policy.

Here's a link to one of the articles
TIME's Exclusive Interview with President Obama - TIME

If you don't have a compy of TIME, go borrow one...

**garydee123** · 06 Aug 09,, 15:01

I think the White House should hear about "fishy" information going around the internet. There's a lot of it and I use factorfiction.org to get the truth. Also with the White House seeing these remarks, they can present better communication n issues that are related.