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Thread: GM (Government Motors) Closes Pontiac and Saturn.

  1. #31
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    tsx is european accord, not american, 2 different platforms,

    g37-35 have nothing in common with maxima, also different platforms,maxima shared with altima and murano, g37 platform is shared with m35\45 (different version of it)
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

  2. #32
    Patron Equilibrium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    You had? Did you get rid of it? That's an awesome looking car. I bet it's fun as hell to drive. I certainly don't mind having one.
    Yes. She was red with a black interior.



    It definitely is fun to drive. I fell in love with it immediately two years ago when I saw it in front of the Saturn dealer down here. The cars were limited and I had to wait about 6 months for it to be built from the factory. Crusing with the top down on South Beach or when the weather was cold was a sensation I am going to miss.

    I was offered an amount for it that was more than I owed. With Saturn going down the drain, I figured I should get some ROI before it drops precipitously.

    I got my eye on either the new Camaro or Challenger.

  3. #33
    Military Professional dave lukins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post

    I got my eye on either the new Camaro or Challenger.
    Nice..however if you want real fun get a bike

    PS. I had a Challenger once, mind you it weighed 56 tons)

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
    I got my eye on either the new Camaro or Challenger.
    FYI, Chrysler just filed Chap 11 and I don't think GM is far behind.........are there any Fords you like?


    And what do you mean by "cold" in south beach?!

  5. #35
    Patron Equilibrium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7thsfsniper View Post
    FYI, Chrysler just filed Chap 11 and I don't think GM is far behind.........are there any Fords you like?


    And what do you mean by "cold" in south beach?!
    Mustangs of course, GT 500's and Saleens, but they are a little out of my price range; I'll have to wait for the used market to give me more options on those, especially with the '10 body modifications they've done. I thin the '04-09 models will drop some more.

    I'm a Miami oddity: I love cold weather. Of course, down here, cold is anything below 70. On those rare occasions when the temp drops to the 30's, I pull the top down and just take the long way to work or home.

    PS. I had a Challenger once, mind you it weighed 56 tons
    I wish I had a ride like that, especially in Miami traffic
    Last edited by Equilibrium; 02 May 09, at 04:20.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equilibrium View Post
    Mustangs of course, GT 500's and Saleens, but they are a little out of my price range; I'll have to wait for the used market to give me more options on those, especially with the '10 body modifications they've done. I thin the '04-09 models will drop some more.

    I'm a Miami oddity: I love cold weather. Of course, down here, cold is anything below 60. On those rare occasions when the temp drops to the 30's, I pull the top down and just take the long way to work or home.
    I like the new Mustangs as well. Best ones since '69 IMO, since I once had a '69 MACH 1. It was suhweeet!

    I spent some time in Florida about twenty years ago. I was the only one that owned a coat as I recall. The house I stayed at didn't even have a heater and I was the only one NOT freezing my ass off. I think it got down about 45f one night and you would have thought the next ice age was about to hit by everyones reaction. It was pretty funny for someone thats used to that type of weather.

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    Quote Originally Posted by captain View Post
    South Australia has recently suffered the closure of the Mitsubishi plant that produced the Magna. The Magna was also exported world wide and went to the U.S as the Dimante (I think).
    It was the Diamante here. I can understand why they closed the plant. That is a really rare car here in the states, they didn't sell many of them.

    Holden has had a long history of producing cars for export and the previous Pontiac GTO was a rebadged Holden Monaro.

    Australia and particularly South Australia will hurt badly if we loose GMH Holden also.

    Hint,, Buy a Pontiac G8 GXP to help us out a little.. Please!)

    Cheers.
    If I made $15 million tomorrow there are only a handful of cars I would go out and buy immediately.

    The Aston Martin DBS
    A Corvette ZR1
    A Nissan GT-R
    AND the Pontiac G8 GXP(I'd settle for a GT). That's how much I want that car.

    At least now the G8 GT's will be cheap later on. By the time I'm out of college in 2013 I ought to be able to grab a nice example for under $20K.

  8. #38
    Patron RadioPatrol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxor View Post
    Why not let GM go into bankruptcy protection to renegoaite contracts?


    because the UAW might be forced to take pay and benefit cuts ....


    and the Socialists in Power Cannot let that happen, especially since it now looks like the UAW is going to get controlling interest in GM and Chrysler
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by RadioPatrol View Post
    especially since it now looks like the UAW is going to get controlling interest in GM and Chrysler
    I thought I heard that the UAW got 55% of Chrysler. It looks like the foxes now have control of the hen house.:(

  10. #40
    Windweaver Senior Contributor snowhole's Avatar
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    GM pushed closer to bankruptcy filing_English_Xinhua

    GM pushed closer to bankruptcy filing
    English_Xinhua 2009-05-28 04:01:40 Print
    by Xinhua writer Hu Guangyao

    CHICAGO, May 27 (Xinhua) -- With bondholders refusing to swap debt for a 10-percent stake, the largest U.S. automaker General Motors Corps. has been pushed closer to a bankruptcy filing.

    According to GM sources, the number of bondholders who agreed to swap debt for a 10-percent stake in the company was "substantially less" than the 90 percent mandated by the U.S. Treasury Department, which has loaned GM 19.4 billion U.S. dollars in a taxpayer money bailout.


    A GM inflatable sign is seen during the Barrett-Jackson auto auction in West Palm Beach, Florida April 11, 2009. (Xinhua/Reuters photo)

    GM's offer, which expired at midnight on Tuesday, was widely viewed as unlikely to tempt GM's unsecured bondholders to exchange about 24 billion U.S. dollars in debt for a 10-percent piece of the restructured automaker.

    The failed exchange could force GM to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy by Monday, the deadline by which the automaker was required to restructure and reach money-saving concessions with the United Auto Workers union and bondholders.

    In a statement issued on Wednesday, GM said: "the GM Board of Directors will be meeting to discuss GM's next steps in light of the expiration of the exchange offers."

    According to reports, in early trading, shares of GM were down 17 cents, or 11.7 percent, to 1.27 U.S. dollars.

    It was reported that there had been a small hope that GM could avoid a bankruptcy filing when the United Auto Workers union made concessions to GM. The auto union disclosed on Tuesday that it would take a 20-percent stake in GM, down from the original plan of 39 percent. That seemingly freed 19 percent of the Detroit-based company's shares to sweeten the pot for its recalcitrant bondholders.

    As the bondholder deal did not go through, the equity freed by the auto union deal now apparently will go to the U.S. government, which may have to commit billions more for GM's restructuring in court.

    The government's stake in the company originally was to be 50 percent. But it now could be as high as 69 percent.

    GM's offer was expected to fail considering a committee representing some of GM's largest bondholders have called the offer unfair and countered with a proposal that would give them a 58-percent stake in the company.


    A General Motors dealership is seen in Vienna, Virginia, May 27, 2009. General Motors Corp moved closer to filing the largest U.S. industrial bankruptcy after a crucial bond exchange proposal failed and as officials in Germany neared a decision on which company would take over GM's European brand, Opel.(Xinhua/Reuters Photo)

    According to experts in the U.S. auto industry, regardless of the results, GM needs to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy to become a profitable company. A bankruptcy filing would help GM restructure debt, shrink its dealer network, shed unprofitable assets and dispose of machinery and equipment.

    If GM files bankruptcy, the automaker is expected to receive about 30 billion U.S. dollars in debtor-in-possession financing and exit financing.

    Bondholders rank below GM's 6 billion U.S. dollars in senior secured debt and the government's nearly 21 billion U.S. dollars in debt, so in a liquidation of GM they would get nothing or something unbelievably small, a person familiar with the matter told Detroit News.

    According to reports, the U.S. government, even if it receives a 70-percent equity stake in GM, would not exercise day to day control over GM's operations or make decisions on where GM's headquarters would be placed.

    The Treasury will not appoint government employees to GM's board, but is helping GM to reconstitute its board of directors and will have the right to appoint some directors, as it does with the deal it has with Chrysler LLC.

    It is reported that the Obama administration, in its planning for a GM bankruptcy if no deal is reached with bondholders, is prepared to lend the company an additional 30 billion U.S. dollars, bringing the total U.S. investment in the automaker to 45 billion U.S. dollars.

    Editor: Mu Xuequan
    夫唯不爭,故天下莫能與之爭。

  11. #41
    Field mechanik Senior Contributor omon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Now it's just another bland GM label. The Saturn Outlook is the same car as the Buick Enclave and the GMC Acadia. Why make the same car 3 times?
    well toyota is doing it, land cruiser-lx570, nissan used to do it, pathfinder-qx4.
    acura of canada has a acura badged civic-csx.
    badge engeneering isn,t bad if done in right amounts
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!" B. Franklin

  12. #42
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Game changed overnight: bondholders settle for stock and warrants. Last gasp of independent management, it appears.
    To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato

  13. #43
    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by omon View Post
    well toyota is doing it, land cruiser-lx570, nissan used to do it, pathfinder-qx4.
    acura of canada has a acura badged civic-csx.
    badge engeneering isn,t bad if done in right amounts
    Oh yeah I agree. Everything has to be in moderation. GM had 8 brands. That, to me, was beyond moderation.

    Why don't we let UAW have GM? If they think they are so good to the workers and think running business is easy, let them deal with their own pension. How bad can it be? We have public employees unions controlling the government officials in charge of their contracts.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

  14. #44
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    washingtonpost.com

    Government Motors
    GM's new owner (the Obama administration) should stop bullying the company's bondholders.
    Tuesday, May 26, 2009

    IN THEORY, a government bailout should provide a short-term infusion of cash to give a struggling company the chance to right itself. But in its aggressive dealings with U.S. automakers, most recently General Motors, the Obama administration is coming dangerously close to engaging in financial engineering that ignores basic principles of fairness and economic realities to further political goals.

    It is now clear that there is no real difference between the government and the entity that identifies itself as GM. For all intents and purposes, the government, which is set to assume a 50 percent equity stake in the company, is GM, and it has been calling the shots in negotiations with creditors. While the Obama administration has been playing hardball with bondholders, it has been more than happy to play nice with the United Auto Workers. How else to explain why a retiree health-care fund controlled by the UAW is slated to get a 39 percent equity stake in GM for its remaining $10 billion in claims while bondholders are being pressured to take a 10 percent stake for their $27 billion? It's highly unlikely that the auto industry professionals at GM would have cut such a deal had the government not been standing over them -- or providing the steady stream of taxpayer dollars needed to keep the factory doors open.

    GM is widely expected to file for bankruptcy before the end of this month. If this were a typical bankruptcy, the company would be allowed by law to tear up its UAW collective bargaining agreement and negotiate for drastically reduced wages and benefits. That's not going happen. Phrased another way: The government won't let that happen. Still, the threat of a contract abrogation probably played a role in the union's agreement to cost-cutting measures last week. (The details of the deal have not been made public; union members are scheduled to vote on the proposal early this week.) It's never easy for unions to make concessions, but the sting of handing back money is being softened by the government's desire to give the union a huge ownership stake in GM. Might bondholders be more willing to agree to the kind of quick restructuring the government hopes for if they had been treated more fairly from the outset?

    The administration argues that it could not risk alienating the union for fear of triggering a walkout that could permanently cripple GM. It also posits that it had to agree to protect suppliers and fund warranties in order to preserve jobs and reassure prospective buyers that their cars would be serviced. These are legitimate concerns. But it's too bad that the Obama administration has not thought more deeply about how its bullying of bondholders could convince future investors that the last thing they want to do is put money into any company that the government has -- or could -- become involved in.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

  15. #45
    Windweaver Senior Contributor snowhole's Avatar
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    Iconic U.S. auto giant GM declares bankruptcy_English_Xinhua

    Iconic U.S. auto giant GM declares bankruptcy
    English_Xinhua 2009-06-01 20:09:25 Print


    ·General Motors Corp., the top U.S. automaker, filed for bankruptcy protection Monday.
    ·GM will close 11 U.S. factories and idle three others to slash its operating costs.
    ·The GM bankruptcy, along with the previous one of Chrysler, will also lead to the loss of hundreds of dealers and suppliers as well as hundreds of thousands of jobs.

    NEW YORK, June 1 (Xinhua) -- In the largest industrial bankruptcy ever seen in U.S. history, General Motors Corp., the top U.S. automaker and once the world's largest corporation, filed for bankruptcy protection on Monday.


    The logo of General Motors Corp. (GM) is seen outside the GM headquarters in Detroit, the United States, May 29, 2009. The largest U.S. automaker, General Motors Corp., officially filed for bankruptcy protection at 8 a.m. EDT (1200 GMT) on Monday, the largest bankruptcy protection case in the U.S. industrial history. (Xinhua/Gu Xinrong)


    The Detroit-based company, for decades a symbol of American manufacturing supremacy, corporate culture and even lifestyle, filed a Chapter 11 petition to the U.S. Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York.

    The collapse of the century-old auto giant came at a time when the United States is experiencing the worst economic recession since the Great Depression. Just a month ago, Chrysler LLC, the country's third largest automaker, took the same path.


    The logo of General Motors Corp. (GM) is seen in front of the GM headquarters in Detroit, the United States, April 15, 2009. The largest U.S. automaker, General Motors Corp., officially filed for bankruptcy protection at 8 a.m. EDT (1200 GMT) on Monday, the largest bankruptcy protection case in the U.S. industrial history. (Xinhua/Gu Xinrong)

    Hoping to reemerge from bankruptcy protection as a new, leaner company within 60 to 90 days, GM will close 11 U.S. factories and idle three others to slash its operating costs. It has been looking to cut 21,000 factory jobs from the 54,000 workers it now employs in the United States.

    The GM bankruptcy, along with the previous one of Chrysler, will also lead to the loss of hundreds of dealers and suppliers as well as hundreds of thousands of jobs, dampening U.S. President Barack Obama and his administration's efforts to stimulate the slumping economy.


    A piece of news about the General Motors Corp. filing for bankruptcy protection is seen on the front page of a newspaper in Detroit, the United States, June 1, 2009. The largest U.S. automaker, General Motors Corp., officially filed for bankruptcy protection at 8 a.m. EDT (1200 GMT) on Monday, the largest bankruptcy protection case in the U.S. industrial history. (Xinhua/Gu Xinrong)

    However, an overnight statement from GM China to Xinhua said that the impact of its U.S. parent's bankruptcy "will be minimal to our China business including our operations and sales."

    "We will maintain our normal business operations, including our suppliers system, dealers, warranty and customer support operations," it added.
    夫唯不爭,故天下莫能與之爭。

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