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Thread: Norm Coleman

  1. #1
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    Norm Coleman

    Will he ever concede? I think it's crossed a line. It may play well with many here but, the National parties unyielding support in what looks to be an effort to toss out an election may not play well nationwide in two years. I think Franken is an Ass but, He appears to be another Ass who should be a US Senator. It can't be helping the party with Independents in the state to look like they are only trying to prevent the eventual Seating of a 59th Democratic Senator

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    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Public opinion in Minnesota abides Coleman. I don't think anybody else in the country really cares.
    Minnesota Voters See Franken As Winner, Closely Divided Over Senate Race Revote

    Thursday, March 05, 2009

    Forty-seven percent (47%) of Minnesota voters now believe Democrat Al Franken has been elected to the U.S. Senate in a race so close that it’s been working its way through the state’s court system for the last four months.

    Thirty-five percent (35%) believe incumbent Republican Senator Norm Coleman will be re-elected, and 18% are not sure in the latest Rasmussen Reports survey of Minnesota voters.

    Coleman, who now trails Franken, has proposed that the state vote again because of the closeness of the race, but Minnesota voters are almost evenly divided on his proposal. Forty-six percent (46%) think they should vote again, but 44% disagree. Ten percent (10%) are not sure which is best.

    Not surprisingly, 71% of Republicans support a revote, while 69% of Democrats are opposed. Among voters not affiliated with either major party, a revote is favored by 12 points.
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...te_race_revote

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    Official Thread Jacker Senior Contributor gunnut's Avatar
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    Maybe Franken should go to the court to ask the recount be stopped.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    As I understand it the recount has been over. Coleman is just cycling through his appeals and promising to go all the way.

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    As I've read it, Coleman's position has shifted throughout the process, and so I don't see him that favorably. However, I think it's been pretty clear that Minnesota state law hasn't been enforced uniformly and that difference is the difference in the outcome. I think he's got a good case to appeal to.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
    As I understand it the recount has been over. Coleman is just cycling through his appeals and promising to go all the way.
    Well then perhaps you should ask if Coleman should just give up because it's over and the writing's on the wall, not because of the view of independents. Independents in Minnesota seem to hold a view that's more favorable to Coleman.

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    Muganga Military Professional JOgershok's Avatar
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    Just another comedian is what the Senate needs today.
    J. J. Ogershok, Jr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ironduke View Post
    Well then perhaps you should ask if Coleman should just give up because it's over and the writing's on the wall, not because of the view of independents. Independents in Minnesota seem to hold a view that's more favorable to Coleman.
    Is that approval of the tactics or a desire for a Senator?

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    Former Staff Senior Contributor Ironduke's Avatar
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    Coleman's stated position is that there should be a revote, and independents favor Coleman's position by 12 points. Infer what you want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
    Is that approval of the tactics or a desire for a Senator?
    Here is a piece that's not from a "goofball" type source that puts most of it together...being I live in Minnesota I have had the "fun"of watching the fiasco unfold on a day by day basis...
    For me i would rather be represented by just one Senator than have a person who in my opinion vote mined and well...stole the seat
    So being the thing is so "hosed up" why not have another vote....there are special elections all the time.

    From The Wall street Journal:
    Funny Business in Minnesota,
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123111967642552909.html
    JANUARY 5, 2009

    Strange things keep happening in Minnesota, where the disputed recount in the Senate race between Norm Coleman and Al Franken may be nearing a dubious outcome. Thanks to the machinations of Democratic Secretary of State Mark Ritchie and a meek state Canvassing Board, Mr. Franken may emerge as an illegitimate victor.


    APMr. Franken started the recount 215 votes behind Senator Coleman, but he now claims a 225-vote lead and suddenly the man who was insisting on "counting every vote" wants to shut the process down. He's getting help from Mr. Ritchie and his four fellow Canvassing Board members, who have delivered inconsistent rulings and are ignoring glaring problems with the tallies.

    Under Minnesota law, election officials are required to make a duplicate ballot if the original is damaged during Election Night counting. Officials are supposed to mark these as "duplicate" and segregate the original ballots. But it appears some officials may have failed to mark ballots as duplicates, which are now being counted in addition to the originals. This helps explain why more than 25 precincts now have more ballots than voters who signed in to vote. By some estimates this double counting has yielded Mr. Franken an additional 80 to 100 votes.

    This disenfranchises Minnesotans whose vote counted only once. And one Canvassing Board member, State Supreme Court Justice G. Barry Anderson, has acknowledged that "very likely there was a double counting." Yet the board insists that it lacks the authority to question local officials and it is merely adding the inflated numbers to the totals.

    In other cases, the board has been flagrantly inconsistent. Last month, Mr. Franken's campaign charged that one Hennepin County (Minneapolis) precinct had "lost" 133 votes, since the hand recount showed fewer ballots than machine votes recorded on Election Night. Though there is no proof to this missing vote charge -- officials may have accidentally run the ballots through the machine twice on Election Night -- the Canvassing Board chose to go with the Election Night total, rather than the actual number of ballots in the recount. That decision gave Mr. Franken a gain of 46 votes.

    Meanwhile, a Ramsey County precinct ended up with 177 more ballots than there were recorded votes on Election Night. In that case, the board decided to go with the extra ballots, rather than the Election Night total, even though the county is now showing more ballots than voters in the precinct. This gave Mr. Franken a net gain of 37 votes, which means he's benefited both ways from the board's inconsistency.

    And then there are the absentee ballots. The Franken campaign initially howled that some absentee votes had been erroneously rejected by local officials. Counties were supposed to review their absentees and create a list of those they believed were mistakenly rejected. Many Franken-leaning counties did so, submitting 1,350 ballots to include in the results. But many Coleman-leaning counties have yet to complete a re-examination. Despite this lack of uniformity, and though the state Supreme Court has yet to rule on a Coleman request to standardize this absentee review, Mr. Ritchie's office nonetheless plowed through the incomplete pile of 1,350 absentees this weekend, padding Mr. Franken's edge by a further 176 votes.

    Both campaigns have also suggested that Mr. Ritchie's office made mistakes in tabulating votes that had been challenged by either of the campaigns. And the Canvassing Board appears to have applied inconsistent standards in how it decided some of these challenged votes -- in ways that, again on net, have favored Mr. Franken.

    The question is how the board can certify a fair and accurate election result given these multiple recount problems. Yet that is precisely what the five members seem prepared to do when they meet today. Some members seem to have concluded that because one of the candidates will challenge the result in any event, why not get on with it and leave it to the courts? Mr. Coleman will certainly have grounds to contest the result in court, but he'll be at a disadvantage given that courts are understandably reluctant to overrule a certified outcome.

    Meanwhile, Minnesota's other Senator, Amy Klobuchar, is already saying her fellow Democrats should seat Mr. Franken when the 111th Congress begins this week if the Canvassing Board certifies him as the winner. This contradicts Minnesota law, which says the state cannot award a certificate of election if one party contests the results. Ms. Klobuchar is trying to create the public perception of a fait accompli, all the better to make Mr. Coleman look like a sore loser and build pressure on him to drop his legal challenge despite the funny recount business.

    Minnesotans like to think that their state isn't like New Jersey or Louisiana, and typically it isn't. But we can't recall a similar recount involving optical scanning machines that has changed so many votes, and in which nearly every crucial decision worked to the advantage of the same candidate. The Coleman campaign clearly misjudged the politics here, and the apparent willingness of a partisan like Mr. Ritchie to help his preferred candidate, Mr. Franken. If the Canvassing Board certifies Mr. Franken as the winner based on the current count, it will be anointing a tainted and undeserving Senator.

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    Muganga Military Professional JOgershok's Avatar
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    What a mess. A "special Election would undo this fiasco.
    J. J. Ogershok, Jr.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOgershok View Post
    What a mess. A "special Election would undo this fiasco.
    Agreed....

    And that story in the WSJ doesn't even tell the whole story....things like "poll workers" driving around with absentee ballots in their car that "wow look what we found"...and dozens of "odd" little things like that...
    It is so screwed up now that the only "fair" way to conclude this is to have a special election then it would be fair to both sides...IMO
    The problem is that there is no provision for that in Minnesota law...under this circumstance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
    Will he ever concede? I think it's crossed a line. It may play well with many here but, the National parties unyielding support in what looks to be an effort to toss out an election may not play well nationwide in two years. I think Franken is an Ass but, He appears to be another Ass who should be a US Senator. It can't be helping the party with Independents in the state to look like they are only trying to prevent the eventual Seating of a 59th Democratic Senator
    I think it needs to be fought forever on the basis that Al Franken being anywhere near a Senate seat is one of the most embarrassing appointees ever. People who voted for him suck.

    Seriously, this guy should not be 1/100 of the US Senate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeloader View Post
    I think it needs to be fought forever on the basis that Al Franken being anywhere near a Senate seat is one of the most embarrassing appointees ever. People who voted for him suck.

    Seriously, this guy should not be 1/100 of the US Senate.
    Or maybe its a perfect metaphor for the fact that most of them are jokers )
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freeloader View Post
    I think it needs to be fought forever on the basis that Al Franken being anywhere near a Senate seat is one of the most embarrassing appointees ever. People who voted for him suck.

    Seriously, this guy should not be 1/100 of the US Senate.
    Hey we have had more than a few actors, sports str etc. Most thought them goofballs but hey someone voted for Jim Bunning too and more than once. Lets not forget Gopher from the loveboat

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