Thread: Norm Coleman

Originally Posted by gunnut

Could they have moved their voting residences to Minnesota? A lot of students move their residences to get the cheaper in-state tuition. That should grant them the legal status to vote in that state.

That was going to be my question. That is what I did in college. i became a West Virginia resident and voted so in 1978 I could pay in state tuition and save $2500 a year....and then I went and got an ROTC scholarship for 2 years!

[QUOTE=zraver;646226]Votes/ballots are secret- the evidence of fraud occurs at levels below the actual casting of the ballot.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/us/05acorn.html ACORN charged


Actually, no.

2 former ACORN employees have been charged. In the article it says that ACORN cooperated fully in the investigation and fired the individuals as soon as it became apparent there could have been malfeasance.

Not the same as full scale, wide spread crime.

[QUOTE=Albany Rifles;646232]

Originally Posted by zraver

Votes/ballots are secret- the evidence of fraud occurs at levels below the actual casting of the ballot.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/us/05acorn.html ACORN charged


Actually, no.

2 former ACORN employees have been charged. In the article it says that ACORN cooperated fully in the investigation and fired the individuals as soon as it became apparent there could have been malfeasance.

Not the same as full scale, wide spread crime.

Pajamas Media » The Complete Guide to ACORN Voter Fraud

Just Missouri,

Although the organization prides itself for its registration efforts, it also has a long history of scandal. In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members were convicted of voter fraud. But that case was not an isolated incident in the state. In December 2004, in St. Louis, six volunteers pleaded guilty of dozens of election law violations for filling out registration cards with names of dead people and other bogus information. Authorities launched an earlier investigation after noticing that among the new voters was longtime St. Louis alderman Albert “Red” Villa, who died in 1990. The volunteers worked for “Operation Big Vote” — a branch of ACORN — in St. Louis.

On February 10, 2005, Nonaresa Montgomery, a paid worker who ran Operation Big Vote during the run-up to the 2001 mayoral primary, was found guilty of vote fraud. Montgomery hired about 30 workers to do fraudulent voter-registration canvassing. Instead of knocking on doors, the volunteers sat at a St. Louis fast food restaurant and wrote out names and information from an outdated voter list. About 1,500 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in.

In October 2006, St. Louis election officials discovered at least 1,492 “potentially fraudulent” voter registration cards. They were all turned in by ACORN volunteers.

In November 2006, 20,000 to 35,000 questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the “disenfranchised” minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren’t just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.

And, that was just Missouri.

Nationally,

This year there have been several accusations of fraud against ACORN. Over a dozen states are investigating the organization already. Here is a complete list of the ongoing investigations:

North Carolina — State Board of Elections officials have found at least 100 voter registration forms with the same names over and over again. The forms were turned in by ACORN. Officials sent about 30 applications to the state Board of Elections for possible fraud investigation.

Ohio — The New York Post reported that a Cleveland man said he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times. The complaints have sparked an investigation by election officials into the organization, whose political wing has supported Barack Obama. Witnesses have already been subpoenaed to testify against the organization.

Nevada — Authorities raided the headquarters of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now on Tuesday October 7, 2008, after a month-long investigation. The fraudulent voter registrations included the Dallas Cowboys starting line-up.

Indiana — More than 2,000 voter registration forms filed in northern Indiana’s Lake County filled out by ACORN employees turned out to be bogus. Officials also stopped processing a stack of about 5,000 applications delivered just before the October 6 registration deadline after the first 2,100 turned out to be phony.

Connecticut — Officials are looking into a complaint alleging ACORN submitted fraudulent voter registration cards in Bridgeport. In one instance, an official said a card was filled out for a 7-year-old girl, whose age was listed as 27. 8,000 cards were submitted in Bridgeport.

Missouri — The Kansas City election board is reporting 100 duplicate applications and 280 with fake information. Acorn officials agreed that at least 4% of their registrations were bogus. Governor Matt Blunt condemned the attempts by ACORN to commit voter fraud.

Pennsylvania — Officials are investigating suspicious or incomplete registration forms submitted by ACORN. 252,595 voter registrations were submitted in Philadelphia. Remarkably, 57,435 were rejected — most of them submitted by ACORN.

Wisconsin — In Milwaukee ACORN improperly used felons as registration workers. Additionally, its workers are among 49 cases of bad registrations sent to authorities for possible charges, as first reported by the Journal Sentinel.

Florida — The Pinellas County Elections supervisor says his office has received around 35 voter registrations that appear to be bogus. There is also a question of 30,000 felons who are registered illegally to vote. Their connections with ACORN are not yet clear.

Texas — Of the 30,000 registration cards ACORN turned in, Harris County tax assessor Paul Bettencourt says just more than 20,000 are valid. And just look at some of the places ACORN was finding those voters. A church just next door is the address for around 150 people. More than 250 people claim a homeless outreach center as their home address. Some listed a county mental health facility as their home and one person even wrote down the Harris County jail at the sheriff’s office.

Michigan — ACORN in Detroit is being investigated after several municipal clerks reported fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications coming through. The clerk interviewed said the fraud appears to be widespread.

New Mexico – The Bernalillo County clerk has notified prosecutors that some 1,100 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in by ACORN.

That’s not all. So far this year at least 14 states have started investigations against ACORN. Talk about a culture of corruption. It is so bad that Representatives of Congress have asked for the Justice Department to investigate, and GOP presidential candidate John McCain is bringing it up in his stump speeches. The Obama camp is stealthily altering its “Fight the Smears” website to distance themselves from the organization — quite a challenge considering how close their candidate’s association has been with the group.

The liberal vs. conservative, voter fraud vs. voter intimidation debate will no doubt continue after this election. But this year, with the assistance of scandal-plagued ACORN, it appears that — so far — the voter fraud side is winning.

Originally Posted by gunnut

Could they have moved their voting residences to Minnesota? A lot of students move their residences to get the cheaper in-state tuition. That should grant them the legal status to vote in that state.

Except for students new to the University in fall 2008, Wisconsin residents get cheaper tuition in-state in Minnesota than Minnesota residents do. I'd estimate that nearly all students who attend the University of Minnesota from Wisconsin retain their original residence to qualify for cheaper tuition. Enough of them voted to tip the "official" balance in Franken's favor.

I saw at least a dozen Wisconsin residents I've met vote at my polling station. Often times they would be with one Minnesota resident along with a group of another 5-10 that the Minnesota resident would vouch for. Anyways, most people who voted at the polling station (I was in line for 2 hours) had to have somebody vouch for them.

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Except for students new to the University in fall 2008, Wisconsin residents get cheaper tuition in-state in Minnesota than Minnesota residents do. I'd estimate that nearly all students who attend the University of Minnesota from Wisconsin retain their original residence to qualify. Enough of them voted to tip the "official" balance in Franken's favor.

Has anyone raised this issue with the state? That sounds like whole sale fraud to me.

Originally Posted by gunnut

Has anyone raised this issue with the state? That sounds like whole sale fraud to me.

Don't know. But yeah, it seems like fraud to me too. I doubt it would get anywhere given our courts.

[QUOTE=zraver;646234]

Originally Posted by Albany Rifles

Pajamas Media » The Complete Guide to ACORN Voter Fraud

Just Missouri,

Although the organization prides itself for its registration efforts, it also has a long history of scandal. In the state of Missouri in 1986, 12 ACORN members were convicted of voter fraud. But that case was not an isolated incident in the state. In December 2004, in St. Louis, six volunteers pleaded guilty of dozens of election law violations for filling out registration cards with names of dead people and other bogus information. Authorities launched an earlier investigation after noticing that among the new voters was longtime St. Louis alderman Albert “Red” Villa, who died in 1990. The volunteers worked for “Operation Big Vote” — a branch of ACORN — in St. Louis.

On February 10, 2005, Nonaresa Montgomery, a paid worker who ran Operation Big Vote during the run-up to the 2001 mayoral primary, was found guilty of vote fraud. Montgomery hired about 30 workers to do fraudulent voter-registration canvassing. Instead of knocking on doors, the volunteers sat at a St. Louis fast food restaurant and wrote out names and information from an outdated voter list. About 1,500 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in.

In October 2006, St. Louis election officials discovered at least 1,492 “potentially fraudulent” voter registration cards. They were all turned in by ACORN volunteers.

In November 2006, 20,000 to 35,000 questionable voter registration forms were turned in by ACORN officials in Missouri. Most all of these were from St. Louis and Kansas City areas, where ACORN purportedly sought to help empower the “disenfranchised” minorities living there. But the ACORN workers weren’t just told to register new voters. The workers admitted on camera that they were coached to tell registrants to vote for Democrat Claire McCaskill.

In 2007, in Kansas City, Missouri, four ACORN employees were indicted for fraud. In April of this year eight ACORN employees in St. Louis city and county pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting bogus voter registrations.

And, that was just Missouri.

Nationally,

This year there have been several accusations of fraud against ACORN. Over a dozen states are investigating the organization already. Here is a complete list of the ongoing investigations:

North Carolina — State Board of Elections officials have found at least 100 voter registration forms with the same names over and over again. The forms were turned in by ACORN. Officials sent about 30 applications to the state Board of Elections for possible fraud investigation.

Ohio — The New York Post reported that a Cleveland man said he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times. The complaints have sparked an investigation by election officials into the organization, whose political wing has supported Barack Obama. Witnesses have already been subpoenaed to testify against the organization.

Nevada — Authorities raided the headquarters of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now on Tuesday October 7, 2008, after a month-long investigation. The fraudulent voter registrations included the Dallas Cowboys starting line-up.

Indiana — More than 2,000 voter registration forms filed in northern Indiana’s Lake County filled out by ACORN employees turned out to be bogus. Officials also stopped processing a stack of about 5,000 applications delivered just before the October 6 registration deadline after the first 2,100 turned out to be phony.

Connecticut — Officials are looking into a complaint alleging ACORN submitted fraudulent voter registration cards in Bridgeport. In one instance, an official said a card was filled out for a 7-year-old girl, whose age was listed as 27. 8,000 cards were submitted in Bridgeport.

Missouri — The Kansas City election board is reporting 100 duplicate applications and 280 with fake information. Acorn officials agreed that at least 4% of their registrations were bogus. Governor Matt Blunt condemned the attempts by ACORN to commit voter fraud.

Pennsylvania — Officials are investigating suspicious or incomplete registration forms submitted by ACORN. 252,595 voter registrations were submitted in Philadelphia. Remarkably, 57,435 were rejected — most of them submitted by ACORN.

Wisconsin — In Milwaukee ACORN improperly used felons as registration workers. Additionally, its workers are among 49 cases of bad registrations sent to authorities for possible charges, as first reported by the Journal Sentinel.

Florida — The Pinellas County Elections supervisor says his office has received around 35 voter registrations that appear to be bogus. There is also a question of 30,000 felons who are registered illegally to vote. Their connections with ACORN are not yet clear.

Texas — Of the 30,000 registration cards ACORN turned in, Harris County tax assessor Paul Bettencourt says just more than 20,000 are valid. And just look at some of the places ACORN was finding those voters. A church just next door is the address for around 150 people. More than 250 people claim a homeless outreach center as their home address. Some listed a county mental health facility as their home and one person even wrote down the Harris County jail at the sheriff’s office.

Michigan — ACORN in Detroit is being investigated after several municipal clerks reported fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications coming through. The clerk interviewed said the fraud appears to be widespread.

New Mexico – The Bernalillo County clerk has notified prosecutors that some 1,100 fraudulent voter registration cards were turned in by ACORN.

That’s not all. So far this year at least 14 states have started investigations against ACORN. Talk about a culture of corruption. It is so bad that Representatives of Congress have asked for the Justice Department to investigate, and GOP presidential candidate John McCain is bringing it up in his stump speeches. The Obama camp is stealthily altering its “Fight the Smears” website to distance themselves from the organization — quite a challenge considering how close their candidate’s association has been with the group.

The liberal vs. conservative, voter fraud vs. voter intimidation debate will no doubt continue after this election. But this year, with the assistance of scandal-plagued ACORN, it appears that — so far — the voter fraud side is winning.

Arent you confusing voter registration issues with voter fraud? Doesnt someone actually have to cast a false ballot for it to count? I've yet tp see any let alone substantial examples of voter fraud. I do agree with your conclusion 100 percent. Many on the he left want everyone with a pulse to be able to vote and many on the right wish to limit the vote. Acorn is not the democratic party and their method of pay not some plot to have seven yr olds vote is the big issue. It should be illegal to pay for registrations,

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

Arent you confusing voter registration issues with voter fraud? Doesnt someone actually have to cast a false ballot for it to count? I've yet tp see any let alone substantial examples of voter fraud. I do agree with your conclusion 100 percent. Many on the he left want everyone with a pulse to be able to vote and many on the right wish to limit the vote. Acorn is not the democratic party and their method of pay not some plot to have seven yr olds vote is the big issue. It should be illegal to pay for registrations,

Hundreds of Wisconsin residents (if not more) attending the University of Minnesota cast votes in local precincts on election day. Students who are the dependents of parents in Wisconsin, who have Wisconsin driver's licenses, drive cars with Wisconsin license plates, and receive the tuition discount that the U of M provides Wisconsin residents. Saw it with my own eyes. Pretty substantial, considering the margin between Coleman and Franken is only a few hundred votes.

200.031 DETERMINATION OF RESIDENCE.

Residence shall be determined in accordance with the following principles, so far as they may be applicable to the facts of the case:

(a) The residence of an individual is in the precinct where the individual’s home is located, from which the individual has no present intention of moving, and to which, whenever the individual is absent, the individual intends to return;

(b) An individual does not lose residence if the individual leaves home to live temporarily in another state or precinct;

(c) An individual does not acquire a residence in any precinct of this state if the individual is living there only temporarily, without the intention of making that precinct home;

(d) If an individual goes into another state or precinct with the intention of making it home or files an affidavit of residence there for election purposes, the individual loses residence in the former precinct;

(e) If an individual moves to another state with the intention of living there for an indefinite period, the individual loses residence in this state, notwithstanding any intention to return at some indefinite future time;

(f) Except as otherwise provided in this section, an individual’s residence is located in the precinct where the individual’s family lives, unless the individual’s family is living in that precinct only temporarily;

(g) If an individual’s family lives in one precinct and the individual lives or does business in another, the individual’s residence is located in the precinct where the individual’s family lives, unless the individual establishes a home in the other precinct and intends to remain there, with or without the individual’s family;

(h) The residence of a single individual is in the precinct where the individual lives and usually sleeps;

(i) The mere intention to acquire a new residence, is not sufficient to acquire a new residence, unless the individual moves to that location; moving to a new location is not sufficient to acquire a new residence unless the individual intends to remain there;

(j) The residence of an individual who is working temporarily in any precinct of this state is in the precinct where the individual’s permanent home is located;

(k) The residence of an individual who is living permanently in a soldiers’ home or nursing home is in the precinct where the home is located.

(l) If an individual’s home lies in more than one precinct or political subdivision, the residence of the individual is in the precinct in which a majority of the room in which the individual usually sleeps is located.

(m) If an individual’s home is destroyed or rendered uninhabitable by fire or natural disaster, the individual does not lose residence in the precinct where the home is located if the individual intends to return to the home when it is reconstructed or made habitable.

Minnesota Office of the Secretary of State - Chapter 200

Originally Posted by Ironduke

Hundreds of Wisconsin residents (if not more) attending the University of Minnesota cast votes in local precincts on election day. Students who are the dependents of parents in Wisconsin, who have Wisconsin driver's licenses, drive cars with Wisconsin license plates, and receive the tuition discount that the U of M provides Wisconsin residents. Saw it with my own eyes. Pretty substantial, considering the margin between Coleman and Franken is only a few hundred votes.


Minnesota Office of the Secretary of State - Chapter 200

Am I eligible to vote?
You may register and vote in Minnesota on the next Election Day if you:

will be at least 18-years-old on Election Day
are a citizen of the United States
will have resided in Minnesota for 20 days immediately preceding Election Day
have any felony conviction record discharged, expired, or completed
are not under court-ordered guardianship where a court has revoked your voting rights
have not been ruled legally incompetent by a court of law

From the .gov website. 20 days is a low bar but it is the bar. You'd really need an exception for those living in state for an education wouldn't you? Living there for 4 to 7 years isnt temporary and most have no idea where they will go after school

One cannot be a resident of two states.

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

Am I eligible to vote?
You may register and vote in Minnesota on the next Election Day if you:

will be at least 18-years-old on Election Day
are a citizen of the United States
will have resided in Minnesota for 20 days immediately preceding Election Day
have any felony conviction record discharged, expired, or completed
are not under court-ordered guardianship where a court has revoked your voting rights
have not been ruled legally incompetent by a court of law

From the .gov website. 20 days is a low bar but it is the bar. You'd really need an exception for those living in state for an education wouldn't you? Living there for 4 to 7 years isnt temporary and most have no idea where they will go after school

One cannot be a resident of two states. What you've posted applies only if all of the following principles are met:

200.031 DETERMINATION OF RESIDENCE.

Residence shall be determined in accordance with the following principles, so far as they may be applicable to the facts of the case:

(a) The residence of an individual is in the precinct where the individual’s home is located, from which the individual has no present intention of moving, and to which, whenever the individual is absent, the individual intends to return;

(b) An individual does not lose residence if the individual leaves home to live temporarily in another state or precinct;

(c) An individual does not acquire a residence in any precinct of this state if the individual is living there only temporarily, without the intention of making that precinct home;

(d) If an individual goes into another state or precinct with the intention of making it home or files an affidavit of residence there for election purposes, the individual loses residence in the former precinct;

(e) If an individual moves to another state with the intention of living there for an indefinite period, the individual loses residence in this state, notwithstanding any intention to return at some indefinite future time;

(f) Except as otherwise provided in this section, an individual’s residence is located in the precinct where the individual’s family lives, unless the individual’s family is living in that precinct only temporarily;

(g) If an individual’s family lives in one precinct and the individual lives or does business in another, the individual’s residence is located in the precinct where the individual’s family lives, unless the individual establishes a home in the other precinct and intends to remain there, with or without the individual’s family;

(h) The residence of a single individual is in the precinct where the individual lives and usually sleeps;

(i) The mere intention to acquire a new residence, is not sufficient to acquire a new residence, unless the individual moves to that location; moving to a new location is not sufficient to acquire a new residence unless the individual intends to remain there;

(j) The residence of an individual who is working temporarily in any precinct of this state is in the precinct where the individual’s permanent home is located;

(k) The residence of an individual who is living permanently in a soldiers’ home or nursing home is in the precinct where the home is located.

(l) If an individual’s home lies in more than one precinct or political subdivision, the residence of the individual is in the precinct in which a majority of the room in which the individual usually sleeps is located.

(m) If an individual’s home is destroyed or rendered uninhabitable by fire or natural disaster, the individual does not lose residence in the precinct where the home is located if the individual intends to return to the home when it is reconstructed or made habitable.

Minnesota State University Student Association -- Student Voice Updates
it looks like as long as they are only registered and voting in one place it's fine as it stands now anyway. It maybe be sketchy but if it is it's sketchy in 50 states.

Seems to me that if you are willing to dodge the system in one way to benefit yourself, why not dodge the system in another way? Of course I am assuming that our would-be system dodger thinks their candidate in an election in office is going to somehow directly benefit them, or get them more benefits...

I know "Where there is smoke there is fire," is a logical fallacy, but that doesn't mean you don't aggressively check out the 'possible' forest fire....

Originally Posted by Roosveltrepub

Minnesota State University Student Association -- Student Voice Updates
it looks like as long as they are only registered and voting in one place it's fine as it stands now anyway. It maybe be sketchy but if it is it's sketchy in 50 states.

200.031 is the proper source to cite on voter eligibility in MN. Not what a student association has to say.