Thread: The Palin debate

The foregoing plan is kind of simple:

• Eligibility: Holders of a sub-prime mortgage taken after 2005 who live in their home (primary residence only); can prove creditworthiness at the time of the original loan; are either delinquent, in arrears on payments, facing a reset or otherwise demonstrate that they will be unable to continue to
meet their mortgage obligations; and can meet the terms of a new 30 year fixed-rate mortgage on theexisting home.

o John McCain's HOME Plan Will Keep 200,000 To 400,000 Families From Losing Their Homes [unverified claim]. "But at the same time, McCain is calling for aggressive federal action to help keep 200,000 to 400,000 families from losing their homes. That plan has many of the elements of a proposal by Rep. Barney Frank, D-Mass., and Sen. Chris Dodd, D-Conn., requiring participating lenders to forgive part of the loan principal and then write a new loan that would be backed by the federal government through the Federal Housing Administration." (Tom Raum, "Everyone's Invited: McCain Economic Plan Draws From Both Parties," Tucson Citizen, 4/17/08)

• How It Works: Individuals pick up a form at any Post Office or download the form over the Internet and apply for a HOME loan. The FHA HOME Office certifies that the individual is qualified, and contacts the individual's mortgage servicer. The mortgage servicer writes down and retires the
existing loan, which is replaced by an FHA guaranteed HOME loan from a lender

Agree or disagree with that tactical choice, any Democrat preparing to go on Fox News should study how Obama communications director Robert Gibbs mauled Sean Hannity last night and copy and learn from it as though it is Scripture (video below). First, a bit of background: in the 1980s and 1990s, Anthony Martin-Trigona was well-known to New York litigators as a source of warped entertainment, wonderment and universal disgust.

For years, Martin-Trigona ran around continuously suing so many random people on a pro se basis — and when he would lose, he would then sue the lawyers who represented the parties he sued and the judges who ruled against him — that the Second Circuit Court of Appeals actually barred him from commencing any further judicial process without prior authorization, an unprecedented and truly extraordinary order. Some of that history is set forth here. Martin-Trigona would file so many new, rambling lawsuits and motions on a virtually daily basis that, as the Second Circuit pointed out, it actually became impossible for courts even to process: “Martin-Trigona’s voluminous filings have ‘inundated’ the District of Connecticut and his activities have burdened judicial operations to the point of impairing the administration of justice.”

It wasn’t just the quantity but the content that made his litigious behavior so notable. The documents he filed were routinely filled with the most extreme anti-Semitic venom one could find anywhere this side of Mein Kampf. The lawsuits were often based on the theory that a cabal of Jewish judges, lawyers and government officials were conspiring against him, and the Complaints he filed would be filled with artfully-constructed allegations along these lines:

Paragraph 8: On July 12, 1988, the plaintiff-Jew met with aforementioned Jew lawyer to prepare for hearing with the Jew judge.
That’s a paraphrase from memory, but it’s a quite accurate illustration of what his documents routinely contained. In 1986, he ran for Congress in Illinois under this campaign committee: “The Anthony R. Martin-Trigona Congressional Campaign to Exterminate Jew Power in America,” and he wrote sympathetically of the Holocaust. As The Washington Times described this year:
In a New York bankruptcy case, he referred to a judge as a “crooked, slimy Jew.” During the bankruptcy dispute, he filed a civil-rights lawsuit claiming Jewish bankruptcy judges and lawyers were conspiring to steal his property. He asked a court to bar “any Jew from having anything to do with plaintiff’s property.”

In another motion in the case, he wrote: “I am able to understand how the Holocaust took place, and with every passing day feel less and less sorry that it did, when Jew survivors are operating as a wolf pack to steal my property.”
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Originally Posted by 7thsfsniper

Hannity gets so much crap slung at him its hard to weed out the legitimate complaints.

Not impressed with Hannity, at least for the few times I've listened to him.

Yesterday he had open time for Obama supporters and mauled the only serious caller he got. Wouldn't let him finish saying anything. Grilled him like a lawyer badgering a witness, and then hung up on him calling him an idiot.

Then he proceded to show his ignorance about the current credit crisis by blaming it all on Fannie and Freddie. The man is not well informed.

Now Rush on the other hand, like him or leave him, is sharper on the issues and a bit more balanced...a bit... And he's pretty logical too. He nailed it right when he exposed the fallacies in Obama's attack on McCain's health coverage plan.

Obama said McCain doesn't want people to enjoy the same health benefits he and government workers get. Rush pointed out that the USG is an employer and isn't McCain's medical provider. USG employees just have a choice of insurance companies to sign up with and pay part of the premiums just like a private sector employer. (excluding vets and military personnel)

[QUOTE=Triple C;557014]Sorry, Dalem. I missed your point. None of Obama's cooperations with Ayers gave aid, comfort, or made common cause with the Weatherman. Nor did he 'palled' Ayers.


No one is saying that Obama is planting bombs and supporting violence. What they are saying is that it is troubling that Obama has serious ties to Ayers, who DID do those things (and has no regrets nor remorse from doing them). Ayers strategies are still the same. Only his tactics have changed. It's pretty obvious that Obama has much more of a relationship/association with Ayers than he wants us all to believe, just like the Rev. Wright association.

Sorry to revisit this issue but I just can not get past statements such as these.

Originally Posted by gunnut

I would rather have a dumb but honest leader than a smart crook.

The problem, as far as our political process is concerned, is that half the electorate revels in Palin's lack of intellectual qualifications. When it comes to politics, there is a mad love of mediocrity in this country. "They think they're better than you!" is the refrain that (highly competent and cynical) Republican strategists have set loose among the crowd, and the crowd has grown drunk on it once again. "Sarah Palin is an ordinary person!" Yes, all too ordinary.

Sam Harris on Sarah Palin and Elitism | Newsweek Politics: Campaign 2008 | Newsweek.com

Whatever maybe what you all would like to believe, the Polls as of today is:

10/8/08

The race for the 2008 presidency is settling back a bit on Obama's momentum -- at least that is what can be concluded from the four national tracking polls we see today.

Battleground Tracking: Obama 49, McCain 45.
Hotline Tracking: Obama 45, McCain 44.
Reuters Tracking: Obama 47, McCain 45.
Rasmussen Tracking: Obama 51, McCain 45.

AVERAGE: Obama 48, McCain 45. (Obama +3)

Obama's 3% lead is much less than the peak he had of about 7-8% just a couple of days ago.

This movement back towards McCain is likely just a correction in the race after a period where Obama gained considerably in a short amount of time... But there is still very little evidence to suggest that McCain's supporters are at all excited about this race.

Here is what Minnesota Public Radio had to say with respect to the race in Minnesota:

"Among the more than half of the electorate that will definitely turnout, Obama has a 50 point lead. McCain’s supporters are concentrated among voters less certain to vote." (Minnesota Public Radio)

2008 Polls - Presidential Election, Latest Political - Democratic Candidate Poll - Tracking Current

Sit back and enjoy!

Originally Posted by Triple C

Sorry, Dalem. I missed your point. None of Obama's cooperations with Ayers gave aid, comfort, or made common cause with the Weatherman. Nor did he 'palled' Ayers.

As for the porn director epithet, do you have someone particular in mind?

As I've stated repeatedly, you are judged by the company you keep. The company Obama keeps is that of terrorists, felons, and racist anti-American whackjobs.

If you want to let Hero run with the semantic chaff stream about what "terrorism" is while you pop a new chaff pod regarding what "pal around with" means, go ahead and get started, it should be amusing.

And as to your second part, no. I merely place journalists on the same level as kiddie porn directors. Both careers are filled by scumbags and have the same societal value.

-dale

Originally Posted by JAD_333

The foregoing plan is kind of simple:

• Eligibility: Holders of a sub-prime mortgage taken after 2005 who live in their home (primary residence only); can prove creditworthiness at the time of the original loan; are either delinquent, in arrears on payments, facing a reset or otherwise demonstrate that they will be unable to continue to
meet their mortgage obligations; and can meet the terms of a new 30 year fixed-rate mortgage on theexisting home.



• How It Works: Individuals pick up a form at any Post Office or download the form over the Internet and apply for a HOME loan. The FHA HOME Office certifies that the individual is qualified, and contacts the individual's mortgage servicer. The mortgage servicer writes down and retires the
existing loan, which is replaced by an FHA guaranteed HOME loan from a lender

Keee-ryst. Isn't this just what Roosevelt did?

-dale

Originally Posted by Ray

Here is what Minnesota Public Radio had to say with respect to the race in Minnesota:

"Among the more than half of the electorate that will definitely turnout, Obama has a 50 point lead. McCain’s supporters are concentrated among voters less certain to vote." (Minnesota Public Radio)

2008 Polls - Presidential Election, Latest Political - Democratic Candidate Poll - Tracking Current

Sit back and enjoy!

Ray,

Not being an American you can be forgiven for referencing Minnesota Public Radio or for that matter any Public Radio or Public Broadcasting outlet. But I’m sure people like gunnut, Dalem, McFire and 7thsfsniper to name but a few, will be happy to point out the that any news or analysis offered from a Public Broadcasting station is commensurate to the coverage provided by Pravda.

One may howl and whine, but the Polls sure tell a different story as to what the real America thinks!

Originally Posted by JAD_333

Not impressed with Hannity, at least for the few times I've listened to him.

Yesterday he had open time for Obama supporters and mauled the only serious caller he got. Wouldn't let him finish saying anything. Grilled him like a lawyer badgering a witness, and then hung up on him calling him an idiot.

Then he proceded to show his ignorance about the current credit crisis by blaming it all on Fannie and Freddie. The man is not well informed.

Now Rush on the other hand, like him or leave him, is sharper on the issues and a bit more balanced...a bit... And he's pretty logical too. He nailed it right when he exposed the fallacies in Obama's attack on McCain's health coverage plan.

Obama said McCain doesn't want people to enjoy the same health benefits he and government workers get. Rush pointed out that the USG is an employer and isn't McCain's medical provider. USG employees just have a choice of insurance companies to sign up with and pay part of the premiums just like a private sector employer. (excluding vets and military personnel)

Hannity's show generally lacks rational thought-based arguments beyond talking points. One show last week, I counted him saying "William Ayers, unrepentant terrorist" 12 times in less than an hour. He's pretty good at telling us what we already know. Contrary to what he claims, Hannity RARELY debates callers and hangs up on them most of the time. Except of course, those that call in to tell him what a "great american" he is. I usually listen to Tom Sullivan instead of Hannity. His TV show isn't much better. Alan Colmes is a doormat, gutless "liberal" that rarely challenges Hannity. It's difficult to watch.

Originally Posted by dalem

I merely place journalists on the same level as kiddie porn directors. Both careers are filled by scumbags and have the same societal value.

-dale

Unless their with Fox News. :P

Originally Posted by tim52

Ray,

Not being an American you can be forgiven for referencing Minnesota Public Radio or for that matter any Public Radio or Public Broadcasting outlet. But I’m sure people like gunnut, Dalem, McFire and 7thsfsniper to name but a few, will be happy to point out the that any news or analysis offered from a Public Broadcasting station is commensurate to the coverage provided by Pravda.

They can say what they want.

The Polls say what Americans say.

There are many Americans and non Americans who are more loyal to the King than the King himself, but that is not material. What is material is what Americans as a whole think! As of today, they don't seem to share the view of the worthies that you mention.

All I say, that enough is enough.

The US, once the beacon of the world, is down in the dumps. In the garbage can.

It is high time the Americans salvage their image and prestige. And by talking down to the world or using pure muscle will only alienate them and push the world into the eager and welcoming arms of China and Russia.

It is time for Americans to think and not waste time if lipsticks make a pig a dream queen! No offence meant!

The USA has to become the Moral Leader of the World and stupid people are the last thing that the US can afford to elect to find its place back into the leadership of the world!!

American must understand that the crisis in confidence that has been generated in the US, is only adding to the aura of Russia and China.

Imagine Russia bankrolling Iceland from a crisis!!

The US, the most powerful and the richest nation till yesterday, has given away to its rival, Russia! And Russia is no great friend of Iceland!.

Nothing could be more shameful.

And just see how American squabble over non issues while their country sinks!

You require no enemies!

Originally Posted by dalem

Keee-ryst. Isn't this just what Roosevelt did?

-dale

Not quite, but one could argue that we're well on our way to New Deal II.