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Thread: The Palin debate

  1. #136
    Pocket Ashley's Mom Military Professional Southie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shek View Post
    Pregnant daughter - we've all been 17 before. Does this really shed any light on Palin the VP candidate, because I don't think it really sheds any light on Palin the parent. Now, if you have several kids on drugs, pregnant, etc., then I think its fair to generalize from that trend. Not the case here.

    Brother-in-law spat. Herodotus is on the money here. Recuse yourself and let the LtGov handle the situation. However, if the brother-in-law tasered a 10 year old, then that's not an adult that should be entrusted with law enforcement powers. This is a fair issue to attack, but I don't think it shows a large error in judgement that is detrimental. An error in judgement about proper procedure - the outcome isn't questionable IMO.
    I read that Sarah's son Track was conceived out of wedlock. She eloped in Aug 88 and had Track in Apr 89. But according to a police record on Track, he was born in 90. Not that it matters! It could go two ways...either she wished Bristol hadn't followed in her footsteps or she is very understanding.
    “When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.” ~ Jimi Hendrix
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  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnut View Post
    Vote for Obama and the democrats if you want a bunch of union prostitute, corrupt, lying, and racist cry babies.

    Did I mention the biggest donors of the democrats are unions and LAWYERS?

    The very people who hate the lawyers the most support the party of trial lawyers.
    Well, hell. Speaking of lawyers, and as long as we're judging the candidates by the decisions of their children, we should give the sons equal time.

    Track Palin is heading to Iraq to serve in a Stryker Brigade. He'll strap on his 80 lbs. of gear, grab his M16 and walk patrols in the hot sun.

    Beau Biden is also going to Iraq. He will be a military prosecutor. He'll sit in an air conditioned office in the Green Zone and attempt to prosecute soldiers for war crimes, while Track Palin is out there covering his ass.

    The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!
    "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

  3. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by highsea View Post
    Well, hell. Speaking of lawyers, and as long as we're judging the candidates by the decisions of their children, we should give the sons equal time.

    Track Palin is heading to Iraq to serve in a Stryker Brigade. He'll strap on his 80 lbs. of gear, grab his M16 and walk patrols in the hot sun.

    Beau Biden is also going to Iraq. He will be a military prosecutor. He'll sit in an air conditioned office in the Green Zone and attempt to prosecute soldiers for war crimes, while Track Palin is out there covering his ass.

    The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!
    I have thought that too.

  4. #139
    Military Professional McFire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army5339 View Post
    I have thought that too.


    That was what I thought too when I read the story in the paper this morning.
    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

  5. #140
    Senior Contributor tim52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highsea View Post
    Well, hell. Speaking of lawyers, and as long as we're judging the candidates by the decisions of their children, we should give the sons equal time.

    Track Palin is heading to Iraq to serve in a Stryker Brigade. He'll strap on his 80 lbs. of gear, grab his M16 and walk patrols in the hot sun.

    Beau Biden is also going to Iraq. He will be a military prosecutor. He'll sit in an air conditioned office in the Green Zone and attempt to prosecute soldiers for war crimes, while Track Palin is out there covering his ass.

    The apple doesn't fall far from the tree!
    This is bullsh*t - Biden's son is serving as are McCain's and Palin's. To draw a distinction between their respective roles and imply that one serves more honorably than the other is just plain wrong. If Palin's son was serving as a cook or legal specialist in Iraq and a Democrat derided his service can you honestly tell me you wouldn't take exception.

    The fact that McCain, Palin & Biden all have sons serving is honorable and should not be used as an opportunity to malign either their service or their parents.
    Last edited by tim52; 06 Sep 08, at 22:17.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride.

  6. #141
    Ray
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    I never knew that an enemy bullet differentiates between a soldier or an officer or a cook or a vehicle mechanic!

    That is news!

    Gives a new meaning to warfare!


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

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  7. #142
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    To say there isn't a distinction between a JAG officer and an enlisted infantry soldier, and the amount of potential danger they face while deployed is also a bit silly. One will sit in an office, in a complex of offices. The other will be clearing rooms with people inside that mean to kill him. One will complain about the temperature of his coffee, while the other one will stuff the instant coffee from his MRE into his lower lip to keep from falling asleep while on patrol or guard, so as to keep his buddies alive.

  8. #143
    Ray
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    In an insurgency, there is no place and no one that is safe.

    The 'enemy' is unseen and is everywhere and yet nowhere.

    To believe that only those who are combat soldiers are the only one who can be targeted and dead would not be correct.

    The highly protected Green Zone has been attacked and so has the Bagram Airbase when Cheney (and it was supposed to be a secret visit!) had visited and the protection was top quality! People died and they were not combat soldiers alone.

    Baghdad's Green Zone hit; car bomb kills 32 - USATODAY.com

    Cheney Attack Reveals Taliban Suicide Bombing Patterns
    Last edited by Ray; 06 Sep 08, at 21:56.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  9. #144
    Senior Contributor tim52's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army5339 View Post
    To say there isn't a distinction between a JAG officer and an enlisted infantry soldier, and the amount of potential danger they face while deployed is also a bit silly. One will sit in an office, in a complex of offices. The other will be clearing rooms with people inside that mean to kill him. One will complain about the temperature of his coffee, while the other one will stuff the instant coffee from his MRE into his lower lip to keep from falling asleep while on patrol or guard, so as to keep his buddies alive.
    This is not a discussion that serves any of our people serving in the armed forces. To deride one diminishes all in my opinion. When you consider the fact that we maintain an all volunteer force and that the men and women that serve put their careers on hold, spend months and years away from family and friends and endure hardship and privation all for the chance to give something back to their country I don’t think its too much to ask that we honor them with our support for their sacrifice regardless of their role.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride.

  10. #145
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    Much Applause Julie! As a State Governor, The Buck Stops Here. You are responsible for knowing what is going on in your state. You have a duty to the people you serve. I have not researched the points you have made. But, I must say that if all points are true she was the prime candidate that represents McCain's promises. He states that he intends to "shake things up" and "change Washington". Seems to me he chose not on an impulse as the media would have us to believe. But, with much consideration.

  11. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlwaysNavyBrat View Post
    Much Applause Julie! As a State Governor, The Buck Stops Here. You are responsible for knowing what is going on in your state. You have a duty to the people you serve. I have not researched the points you have made. But, I must say that if all points are true she was the prime candidate that represents McCain's promises. He states that he intends to "shake things up" and "change Washington". Seems to me he chose not on an impulse as the media would have us to believe. But, with much consideration.
    Thank you....but why do get applause for this?

  12. #147
    Global Moderator Defense Professional JAD_333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    Thank you....but why do get applause for this?
    Because you are you.)


    seen this? what thread does it belong on?

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  13. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julie View Post
    The details of Palin's ethics reforms, as compared to Obama's, Palins experience in oil and gas, compared to Obama's, and Palin's actions to clean-up corruption in the Republican party:

    As a senator [Obama] he is not in a governing experience, he is only one small part of a body that actually does not oversee anything and does nothing except recommend. A governor has to make decisions on matters of state, a senator does not. Even a mayor has more governing powers than a senator so the Dems come up empty on that one. As has been stated, Gov. Palin has been running a state government while Sen. Obama has been running for government office. There is a great difference in that.

    Sarah Palin. Just who is she. She is a working Mom, a homemaker, a career woman, a former mayor and Governor of Alaska. So how does that make her qualified to be VP of the US and a heartbeat away from the most important office in the world? Is she qualified or are the Democrats going to have a field day declaring that she is not.

    Let’s start with the question, is she qualified. Certainly she is short on experience but no one is claiming that she has a long resume but… and here is where the Democrats had better tread very lightly. They say now that McCain’s argument against Obama’s lack of experience is gone but is it?

    As soon as the Democrats begin this rhetoric about Gov. Palin lacking experience as a leader one only needs to ask the question, just how many years does Obama have governing anything. The answer is NO! So the argument of lack of governing experience goes out the window and the burden falls back on Sen. Obama who has zero governing experience.

    As a senator he is not in a governing experience, he is only one small part of a body that actually does not oversee anything and does nothing except recommend. A governor has to make decisions on matters of state, a senator does not. Even a mayor has more governing powers than a senator so the Dems come up empty on that one. As has been stated, Gov. Palin has been running a state government while Sen. Obama has been running for government office. There is a great difference in that.

    How did she attend college? Well, it was not on the premise of race or gender it can be assumed. It seems that Gov. Palin won a scholarship by virtue of being selected as runner up in the Miss Alaska Pageant which helped pay her way through college.

    Her Dad was a science teacher in public schools and her Mom was a school secretary. It would seem that Gov. Palin would be well acquainted with the difficulties that school teachers have, income wise, where as Sen. Obama only understands from book knowledge, no first hand knowledge.

    Gov. Palin earned her degree in journalism with a minor in political science. Gov Palin actually had a job rather than a position. She was a sports writer and reporter on radio and television. She also has worked along side her husband as a commercial fisherman. So in reality who has more experience in knowing the struggles that Mr. and Mrs. Smith USA experiences? The answer is not Sen. Obama but Gov. Sarah Palin.

    Now it seems that the Obama campaign has attempted to make a big deal out of some ethics bill that Obama was suppose to have brought forth in Illinois. It is not what the Obama camp seems to imply.

    The ethics bill — which passed in a not-so-close 52-4 vote in the Illinois senate — did not clean up Illinois politics. It did at least bar political fundraising on state property. It blocked lobbyists and contractors from giving personal gifts to legislators. But it did not stop them from giving contributions in the so-called “pay-to-play” game. It did not prevent major political donors like Tony Rezko from influencing the makeup of the powerful boards that control the state’s pension funds, filling them with crooked allies who would help him steal. It did not prevent incumbent legislators from rolling campaign funds into their personal bank accounts." So much for Sen. Obama’s ethics experience.

    Now compare that to Gov. Palin’s clean up of Alaska corruption. Governor Murkowski appointed Palin Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, where she served from 2003 to 2004 until resigning in protest over what she called the "lack of ethics" of fellow Alaskan Republican leaders, who ignored her whistleblowing complaints of legal violations and conflicts of interest.

    After she resigned, she exposed the state Republican Party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich, one of her fellow Oil & Gas commissioners, who was accused of doing work for the party on public time, and supplying a lobbyist with a sensitive e-mail. Palin filed formal complaints against both Ruedrich and former Alaska Attorney General Gregg Renkes, who both resigned.

    Oh, there is more: Gov. Palin’s tenure include a successful push for an ethics bill, and also shelving pork-barrel projects supported by fellow Republicans. After federal funding for the Gravina Island Bridge project that had become a nationwide symbol of wasteful earmark spending was lost, Palin decided against filling the over $200 million gap with state money. "Alaska needs to be self-sufficient, she says, instead of relying heavily on 'federal dollars,' as the state does today."

    She has challenged the state's Republican leaders, helping to launch a campaign by Lieutenant Governor Sean Parnell to unseat U.S. Congressman Don Young and publicly challenging Senator Ted Stevens to come clean about the federal investigation into his financial dealings.

    In 2007, Palin had an approval rating often above 90%. A poll published by Hays Research on July 28, 2008 showed Palin's approval rating at 80%.

    On tax reform it seems that Gov. Palin has more experience than Sen. Obama who has talked a good talk but has no fruit to show for his efforts. As Mayor, Sarah Palin reduced her own salary, and reduced property taxes by 60%. Now wonder how the Democrats will argue that Sen. Obama has more experience in that realm.

    On Energy: It would seem that Gov. Palin again holds the edge in experience in this realm as well.

    Palin has strongly promoted oil resource development in Alaska, but also helped pass a tax increase on oil company profits. Palin has announced plans to create a new sub-cabinet group of advisors, to address climate change and reduce greenhouse gas emissions within Alaska.

    Shortly after taking office, Palin rescinded thirty-five appointments made by Murkowski in the last hours of his administration, including the appointment by Murkowski of his former chief of staff James "Jim" Clark to the Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority. Clark later pled guilty to conspiring with a defunct oil-field-services company to channel money into Frank Murkowski's re-election campaign.

    In March 2007, Palin presented the Alaska Gasline Inducement Act (AGIA) as the new legal vehicle for building a natural gas pipeline from the state's North Slope. This negated a deal by the previous governor to grant the contract to a coalition including BP (her husband's seasonal employer). Only one legislator, Representative Ralph Samuels, voted against the measure and in June Palin signed it into law.


    On January 5, 2008, Palin announced that a Canadian company, TransCanada Corp., was the sole AGIA-compliant applicant. In August of 2008 Palin signed a bill into law giving the state of Alaska authority to award TransCanada Pipelines a license to build and operate the $26-billion-dollar pipeline to ship natural gas from the North Slope to the Lower 48, through Canada.

    In response to high oil and gas prices, and in response to the resulting state government budget surplus, Palin proposed giving Alaskans $100-a-month energy debit cards. She also proposed providing grants to electrical utilities so that they would reduce customers' rates. She subsequently dropped the debit card proposal, and in its place she proposed to send Alaskans $1,200 directly and eliminate the gas tax.

    Sounds as if Sen. Obama’s camp will have a difficult time in explaining away her experience and comparing it with Sen. Obama’s very limited experience on energy matters. The same can be said with Joe Biden’s lack of real experience or real action on energy as well. If you were listening to Sen.Obama’s speech of acceptance you will remember he said that McCain had been around 20 plus of the 30 years that nothing had been done about energy. Uh, it seems Sen. Obama forgot that his running mate, Sen. Biden has been around longer than Sen. McCain and would have to bear the same responsibility.

    Gov. Palin is the head of the Alaska National Guard, the military and certainly has to be aquainted with the functioning of that arm of the military. What experience does Sen. Obama have in this realm. Answer NONE. Sen. Biden serves on a committee about the Armed Forces but has no real control of operations of the military, Gov. Palin does.

    Gov. Palin’s son is in the military, active duty, a grunt, enlisted man, who will be in Iraq in a few weeks. He is not an officer sitting in the JAG office of the Reserves as is Sen. Biden’s son. Of course Sen. Biden’s son will also deploy with his reserve unit to Iraq this fall as well and I salute him for his service. As to who will be in greater harms way, the MOS says it all. One is JAG corp, the other is infantry, grunt, enlisted.

    So it seems that the Democrats will have a difficult time in saying that Gov. Palin is not qualified, does not have any experience when the record shows that she is by far more experienced than the individual sitting on the Number 1 spot of the Democrat ticket, Sen. Obama.

    On morals and such as Sen. Obama wants to allude to but does not want to talk about as was shown on the Saddleback interview. Gov. Palin is pro-life and when notified in the early trimesters of her pregnancy that she was carrying a downs syndrome child she did not choose to abort for her “mental health sake”. She understands when life begins and understands the responsibility of making the right choice, not the choice of convince.

    Of course the Democrats have already begun to criticize her for leaving her poor helpless ill child and running for the office of VP. You would think that such “progressive thinking” individuals in the Democrat Party would applaud her and applaud her husband who is stepping into the roll of full time caretaker of this child and the other children that the Palin’s have at home as well.

    It would seem from Gov. Palin’s experience along with Sen. McCain’s continuing battle for change in Washington that they are the ones to bring actually change to Washington. All we have from Sen. Obama is talk of change. What we have in Gov. Palin and Sen. McCain is experience at bringing about real change. Now that is change that we can live with.
    If the points you make above are true, you've been very busy studying the candidate. I was applauding your effort.

  14. #149
    A Handsome Military Professional ShawnG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim52 View Post
    This is not a discussion that serves any of our people serving in the armed forces. To deride one diminishes all in my opinion. When you consider the fact that we maintain an all volunteer force and that the men and women that serve put their careers on hold, spend months and years away from family and friends and endure hardship and privation all for the chance to give something back to their country I don’t think its too much to ask that we honor them with our support for their sacrifice regardless of their role.
    I have to agree to disagree. As an NCO who served two tours (Afghanistan and Iraq, respectively) I understand the sacrifices that are made for everyone that goes over there. However, there is quite a difference (speaking from experience) between a Lance Corporal patrolling the streets and a JAG officer in an office in a hardened building. I was stationed on a larger post for the majority of my tour (much like Baghdad, but a little bit North) and my MOS is 44C. That is Financial Management Technician. I was part of a mobile finance team that traveled to remote bases where infantry were stationed to provide them support since they didn't have a finance office on-site.

    Now with that being said, I did 60+ trips via convoy in Iraq, and 50+ trips in Afghanistan via CH-47/UH-60, and in my personal experience and observation over that (combined) 24 month period, the two individuals don't serve in the same capacity. I'm not infantry and my vehicle was blown up by an IED. I'm not infantry and I experienced a small-arms firefight. I was able to witness our Predator UAV bringing pain upon our foes via Hellfire missiles. At no point in time during my travels across either nation did I ever see a JAG officer. Instead, the JAG officers sent a paralegal for support missions. An E-4 or an E-5. They collected paperwork and brought it back to the JAG who was in his air-conditioned office in a Logistical Support Area, who's largest chance of facing adversity is a rogue mortar that wasn't shot down by the CRAM guns (YouTube - CRAM (Mini-gun) in Iraq) on his way back from lunch/dinner.

    I am speaking purely from a "guts" standpoint. Serving in a position that forces you to face adversity directly. While making 1/4 the paycheck of the other individual in the "rear".

    I feel that it is more honorable to serve as an infantryman. I look back on my service and am simply proud that I could help those infantryman focus on what they needed to.

    I don't know, as I said above; I agree to disagree. You simply can't say that a JAG officer and a Lance Corporal infantryman serve in the same capacity, serve in similar situations, or make the same sacrifices. Because they flat out don't.
    "The way to a man's heart is through his stomach...just make sure you thrust upward through his ribcage."

  15. #150
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