Thread: "World Court" vs. Texas

Originally Posted by brokensickle

I found in my many years here on Earth that sitting on your hands and doing nothing when nations break your sovereign laws has reciprocity...like say, a lawless society.

You'll either embolden law breakers by your inaction to carry out your laws or you'll make em' mad when you carry them out.

Your pacifist technique will lead only to anarchy and lawlessness this side of heaven.

I think you think your smarter, kinder/gentler, more progressive to think like you do. But your thinking, IMHO is why the West, especially Europe is in a dangerous decline. Compassion for innocents is a great thing, Compassion for sinners is a great thing but if you don't have strong punishment for heinous crimes those crimes will increase.

Let butchers who murder make their peace with God them take them out of circulation.

Oh yes...Don't forget the victims. Fight for them harder than you fight for the freaking murderers.

Ivan

Perhaps you misconstrue what I was trying to argue. I am no pacifist and I am not arguing the guilt or innocence of this man. This is an international issue since the state of Mexico got involved. Mexico believed one of its citizens was wronged and took up a grievance with the only court it could-the ICJ. The ICJ ruled in its favor, but due to internal federalism, and a resistance on the part of Texas and the US Supreme Court to acknowledge the ICJ's jurisdiction over it, the ruling was ignored.

So what recourse does Mexico have at this point? They won a court case that their admittedly larger and more powerful neighbor has now ignored. They could sit there and take it, since yes they are dependent on the US, or there are little things they can do to make life more difficult for Americans in Mexico. In other words-reciprocity. His execution should have been stayed, but the point is moot now.

Americans in Mexico, tourists or otherwise, who are arrested and not granted consular access, or who are given excessive patdowns for drugs, or find police response to stolen items incredibly slow could have Texas to thank for their predicament. That's not to say Mexico will use reciprocity, it certainly will not in any overt way, but it could.

Originally Posted by mikeb

I still maintain that all this houpla is not about nations want to protect their citizens rights to consular access. It's being used to push against capital punishment. You will note that the case is not being pushed for Mexican citizens convicted of b and e or shoplifting.

It would be nice however in the future the Federal government would not sign treaties or protocols that it is unable to legally enforce in the United States.

Its able to enforce it on federal cases.

Originally Posted by Herodotus

Americans in Mexico, tourists or otherwise, who are arrested and not granted consular access, or who are given excessive patdowns for drugs, or find police response to stolen items incredibly slow could have Texas to thank for their predicament. That's not to say Mexico will use reciprocity, it certainly will not in any overt way, but it could.

That happens anyway. The only things the mexican government controls are podiums and mics. The cartels control most of the rest.

[QUOTE=Gun Grape;527388]Done.


Excellent.

The person who let this go ahead, against the pressure from above, deserves to be re-elected..that's the sort of person I would vote for. Child murderers have NO rights whatsoever..I don't care or give a damn what some other Country's says. It sickens me to death that the "rights" of the likes of these scum are given priority over the victims and the victims families. If Texas want someone to press the button..pull the switch..squeeze the trigger then I'm your man and I'll do it for Free!

Originally Posted by Herodotus

Perhaps you misconstrue what I was trying to argue. I am no pacifist and I am not arguing the guilt or innocence of this man. This is an international issue since the state of Mexico got involved. Mexico believed one of its citizens was wronged and took up a grievance with the only court it could-the ICJ. The ICJ ruled in its favor, but due to internal federalism, and a resistance on the part of Texas and the US Supreme Court to acknowledge the ICJ's jurisdiction over it, the ruling was ignored.

So what recourse does Mexico have at this point? They won a court case that their admittedly larger and more powerful neighbor has now ignored. They could sit there and take it, since yes they are dependent on the US, or there are little things they can do to make life more difficult for Americans in Mexico. In other words-reciprocity. His execution should have been stayed, but the point is moot now.

Americans in Mexico, tourists or otherwise, who are arrested and not granted consular access, or who are given excessive patdowns for drugs, or find police response to stolen items incredibly slow could have Texas to thank for their predicament. That's not to say Mexico will use reciprocity, it certainly will not in any overt way, but it could.

I've been down to Mexico four different times. I have an uncle who has been down there hundreds of times. The police many times pull people over and rob and extort people them as a general practice. Where is the justice in that? It's helpful to take disposable income down there on top of what you would plan on spending to pay the local law enforcement. I had an uncle that was thrown in jail because he had no money on him to give them. My other uncle had to pay to bail him out even though he had done nothing wrong.

People ask to call their own authorities in America and many times the request is denied and the treatment they receive is harsh while in jail.

I've heard of stories where people were blamed for murder without so much as a trial and mysteriously die at their own hands many times or so says the federalies. " The gringo must have hung himself". No bueno...

For you to think that we are showing these guys who killed these two girls disrespect you have to keep in mind that they received trails and were found
guilty. The question should be who shows more respect and humanity to the other. I would have to say we have, based on numerous accounts of abuse by the Mexican legal system and law enforcement. The international protocol just stymies our ability to uphold our own national laws and should not be considered a higher authority in our own jurisprudence system else wise we will have to cave to international law as it regards national security. That would be as big a problem as a one world government system.

So to your response I would have to say that before this judgment in Texas was made, the Mexican government has many years prior disrespected our country and abused innocent people and guilty people in their country without giving them due-process. Many times they don't even give their own people due process.



Ivan