Thread: "World Court" vs. Texas

Originally Posted by Herodotus

That's not the Vienna Convention, that is the ICJ Optional Clause; too late to apply for this case.

Sorry, my apologies for sporodic replies but that is not the case. The ICJ derives its authority from the UN, more precisely, the UNSC, and nothing in the UN Charters overrides domestic requirements without the authorization of the UNSC. In short, the ICJ is non-binding without a UNSC resolution.

Originally Posted by mikeb

It's covered under section 36. The arresting authorities must allow consular officials communication and physical access to the incarcerated such that they can ensure they are being treated well, arrange legal representation etc. The prisoner can tell them to take a hike and the officials must obey, but the officials must be allowed access the prisoner.

The arresting authorities are supposed to inform the prisoner of their right to consular access "without delay". It's the without delay that gets everyone excited. It's the hole that death penalty opponents try to drive their truck through.

So the nice little murderer did get his phone call, just not in a timely fashion?

-dale

Originally Posted by Officer of Engineers

Sorry, my apologies for sporodic replies but that is not the case. The ICJ derives its authority from the UN, more precisely, the UNSC, and nothing in the UN Charters overrides domestic requirements without the authorization of the UNSC. In short, the ICJ is non-binding without a UNSC resolution.

Not a problem Col. Actually I was responding to turong who I thought confused the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations with the ICJ; but thanks for the info.

Originally Posted by gamercube

Are the states in the US free to do as they like while disregarding the international agreements signed by their federal government?

In the case of a state case, yes. The Federal government can only make legal agreements with foreign entities that pertain to Federal Jurisdiction. The state of Texas is a separate sovereign entity. Unless the constitution is amended to include the terms of the treaty, the states have the choice whether to abide by them or not.

Originally Posted by Speedy

So the federal U.S. government cannot make individual U.S. states abide by international treaties the federal government have signed?

If that is the case why bother having a federal government?

For Issues of mutual defense, interstate commerce, and foreign trade. In a dual-sovereignty system, the States grant powers to the Federal Government.

hmmm, I'd say that Texas should ship the people it's going to execute back to Mexico.. and give them a "bounce" test.. kick them out of an airplane at 30,000 ft and see if they bounce.. if they live, they are innocent, if they die guilty.. (do it over Mexico of course)

Jose gets the needle in a few hours.
I heard on the radio today that Mexicans in Mexico are going to riot in the streets if the execution is carried out.
I doubt the Mexicans in Texas will riot.

Texas schedules execution in defiance of World Court

USA Today--Texas is set to execute a Mexican national this evening, despite a ruling from the International Court of Justice that orders the U.S. government to suspend the death penalty in this and other cases that are before the tribunal.

Jose Medellin, 33, was convicted of murdering a 16-year-old girl in 1993. He is scheduled to receive a lethal injection at 6 p.m. local time.

The Mexican government has challenged the death penalty in this case on the grounds that Medellin wasn't told of his right to contact consular officials. Here's our posting on the court's ruling.

Given the World Court's edict, which is the equivalent of a temporary stay, U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki Moon says the U.S. government is required to stop the execution. "All decisions and orders of the International Court of Justice must be respected by states," Ban says, according to AFP.

But officials in Texas say they're under no obligation to comply with the edicts of a foreign court.

"I just think under cloak and dagger they're trying to reach out and grab something," Mark Vinson, the prosecutor who tried the case, tells Associated Press. "I believe instead of playing this game, he should reach out to his creator. He needs to spend his time praying to his creator for mercy and forgiveness."

Get rid of this scum ASP so he can join his cohorts in HELL

Originally Posted by dave lukins

Get rid of this scum ASP so he can join his cohorts in HELL

Done.


Mexico condemns Texas execution of Mexican man

Mexico condemns Texas execution of Mexican man

By JORGE VARGAS
The Associated Press
Wednesday, August 6, 2008; 1:58 AM

NUEVO LAREDO, Mexico -- Mexico's government condemned Texas' execution of Jose Medellin despite a world court order to review the case, expressing concern for the rights of other Mexicans detained in the United States.

Mexico's Foreign Relations Department said it sent a note of protest to the U.S. State Department about the case, which drew international attention because of allegations that Medellin wasn't allowed to consult the Mexican consulate for legal help following his arrest.

Texas executed the Mexican-born Medellin, 33, late Tuesday for the 1993 slayings of two teenage Houston girls after the U.S. Supreme Court rejected his request for a reprieve in a split vote.

Medellin was convicted of participating in the gang rape, beating and strangling of Elizabeth Pena, 16, and Jennifer Ertman, 14. He and five fellow gang members attacked the girls as they were walking home on a June night, raped and tortured them for an hour, then kicked and stomped them before using a belt and shoelaces to strangle them.

In Nuevo Laredo, Mexico, where Medellin was born, a small group of his relatives condemned his execution.

"Only God has the right to take a life," said Medellin's cousin Reyna Armendariz.


Too bad her cousin didn't learn this lesson. Yet instead of condemning him she condemns the United States. Sweet


Six of his relatives and several activists gathered Tuesday in a working class neighborhood to await news on Medellin's fate.

A large black bow and a banner that read "No to the death penalty ... may God forgive you," hung from an iron fence in the front of the house where Medellin lived until moving to the United States at the age of 3.

A statement from Mexico's Foreign Relations Department said it was "concerned for the precedent that (the execution) may create for the rights of Mexican nationals who may be detained in that country."

How about this for a precedence. Kill someone in my country and we will kill you back. The same thing that we do to killers that are American citizens.
We are equal enforcers of the law.

An international court ruled in 2004 that the convictions of Medellin and 50 other Mexicans on death row around the United States violated the Vienna Convention, which calls for people arrested abroad to have access to their home country's consular officials.

Texas state officials say Medellin didn't ask to do so until well after he was convicted of capital murder.

The International Court of Justice, also known as the world court, said the Mexican prisoners should have new court hearings to determine whether the violation affected their cases.

President Bush asked states to review the cases, but the U.S. Supreme Court ruled earlier this year neither the president nor the international court can force Texas to wait.

Originally Posted by Herodotus

There are reciprocity issues, when it comes to Americans in Mexico, trade, drugs, police cooperation etc.

I found in my many years here on Earth that sitting on your hands and doing nothing when nations break your sovereign laws has reciprocity...like say, a lawless society.

You'll either embolden law breakers by your inaction to carry out your laws or you'll make em' mad when you carry them out.

Your pacifist technique will lead only to anarchy and lawlessness this side of heaven.

I think you think your smarter, kinder/gentler, more progressive to think like you do. But your thinking, IMHO is why the West, especially Europe is in a dangerous decline. Compassion for innocents is a great thing, Compassion for sinners is a great thing but if you don't have strong punishment for heinous crimes those crimes will increase.

Let butchers who murder make their peace with God them take them out of circulation.

Oh yes...Don't forget the victims. Fight for them harder than you fight for the freaking murderers.

Ivan