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Thread: Obama wants to get out of Iraq and concentrate on Afghanistan

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    Obama wants to get out of Iraq and concentrate on Afghanistan

    Obama and McCain Duel Over Foreign Policy

    By JOHN M. BRODER and LARRY ROHTER

    WASHINGTON — Senator Barack Obama said on Tuesday that the addition of tens of thousands of combat troops to Iraq last year had significantly reduced violence in the country. But he said that positive developments there had not changed his mind about the need to pull troops from Iraq so America could focus more on the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan.

    In an address in Washington that was the most detailed outline yet of his national security strategy, Mr. Obama said it was time to rapidly end the war in Iraq, which he opposed from the start, and to begin to address the resurgent Qaeda and Taliban forces in Afghanistan and Pakistan, which he said posed a far greater danger to American security than did the chaos in Iraq.

    Mr. Obama’s likely Republican opponent for the presidency, Senator John McCain, drew the opposite conclusion from events in Iraq. He said the success of the so-called surge, which he supported from the start, pointed the way toward victory in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

    “Today we know Senator Obama was wrong,” Mr. McCain said at a town-hall-style meeting in Albuquerque. “Senator Obama will tell you we can’t win in Afghanistan without losing in Iraq. In fact, he has it exactly backwards. It is precisely the success of the surge in Iraq that shows us the way to succeed in Afghanistan. It is by applying the tried and true principles of counterinsurgency used in the surge, which Senator Obama opposed, that we will win in Afghanistan.”

    In near-simultaneous appearances about 1,700 miles apart, Mr. Obama and Mr. McCain drew sharp battle lines on Iraq and Afghanistan, where rapidly evolving events have tested the candidates and their positions. In an interview on “The NewsHour With Jim Lehrer” on PBS shown on Tuesday night, Mr. Obama acknowledged a “shift in emphasis” on certain issues but suggested that they paled in comparison to Mr. McCain’s shifts.

    In his address on foreign policy, Mr. Obama argued that the war in Iraq had distracted the United States from what he called the central front in the fight against terrorism, the lawless areas along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border where Al Qaeda was regrouping under Taliban protection. He said the well-organized attack on an American base in Afghanistan last week was a sign that the United States was dangerously outgunned.

    Mr. McCain said that both Iraq and Afghanistan were important battlegrounds and that the United States had the ability to fight in both places as long as it retained the will to do so. But on Tuesday, after saying for months that no additional forces were needed in Afghanistan, Mr. McCain changed course and advocated the deployment of an additional three brigades, or about 15,000 troops.

    Mr. McCain also said the United States should help strengthen civil institutions in Afghanistan and help eradicate the heroin trade, proposals echoed by Mr. Obama on Tuesday.

    Mr. McCain painted Mr. Obama as naïve and untraveled, and pointed to his own extensive experience in the military and the government. “I know how to win wars,” said Mr. McCain, a former Vietnam prisoner of war. “And if I’m elected president, I will turn around the war in Afghanistan, just as we have turned around the war in Iraq, with a comprehensive strategy for victory.”

    Mr. Obama, in a 38-minute speech at the Ronald Reagan Building and International Trade Center in Washington, said the war in Iraq had distorted America’s foreign policy, cost it thousands of lives, tarnished its image and emptied its treasury.

    He said that as president he would swiftly end the Iraq war and reorient the American approach to the world to address the challenges of terrorism, nuclear proliferation, climate change and energy dependence.

    “George Bush and John McCain don’t have a strategy for success in Iraq; they have a strategy for staying in Iraq,” Mr. Obama said. “They said we couldn’t leave when violence was up, they say we can’t leave when violence is down. They refuse to press the Iraqis to make tough choices, and they label any timetable to redeploy our troops surrender, even though we would be turning Iraq over to a sovereign Iraqi government, not to a terrorist enemy.”

    In a series of interviews, statements, advertisements and speeches over the past week, Mr. Obama has been laying out a broad vision of America’s role in the world in an Obama presidency. He has spoken of reducing American combat forces in Iraq and adding as many as 10,000 troops in Afghanistan and Pakistan. He has emphasized the application of so-called soft power, the use of diplomacy and economic aid, over the use of force. And he said that as president he would try to mend alliances that have frayed in the seven years of the Bush-Cheney administration.

    Mr. Obama will make his first overseas trip as a presidential candidate at the end of the week. He is scheduled to visit Jordan, Israel, the Palestinian territories, Germany, France and England. He has also said he plans to travel soon to Iraq and Afghanistan.

    President Bush, in a morning press conference just before Mr. Obama’s address, weighed in with some advice for the Democratic candidate.

    Mr. Bush urged him to “listen carefully” to the top American officials in Iraq, Ambassador Ryan C. Crocker and Gen. David H. Petraeus. “You know, there’s a temptation to let the politics at home get in the way with, you know, with the considered judgment of the commanders,” he said. “That’s why I’ve strongly rejected an artificial timetable of withdrawal.”

    The president also said he was adjusting troop levels to respond to improved conditions in Iraq and to new threats in Afghanistan. “The question really facing the country is will we have the patience and determination to succeed in these very difficult theaters,” Mr. Bush said. “We’re at war, and now is not the time to give up.”

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    Senior Contributor smilingassassin's Avatar
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    Obama basically wants to do the same thing as McCain. Pull the troops out and leave a small force behind as needed. The difference is McCain has kept the same plan where as Obama first said he'd pull the troops out emidiately while McCain wanted to "stay in Iraq for 100 years" and now says he'll leave a small force there to help the Iraqi's.

    Yet another flip flop by Obama.
    Facts to a liberal is like Kryptonite to Superman.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smilingassassin View Post
    Obama basically wants to do the same thing as McCain. Pull the troops out and leave a small force behind as needed. The difference is McCain has kept the same plan where as Obama first said he'd pull the troops out emidiately while McCain wanted to "stay in Iraq for 100 years" and now says he'll leave a small force there to help the Iraqi's.

    Yet another flip flop by Obama.
    Not really a filp flop, he has always hedged on this issue, saying 16 months then saying he would listen to the generals, but he was always going to leave a small force there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smilingassassin View Post
    Obama basically wants to do the same thing as McCain. Pull the troops out and leave a small force behind as needed. The difference is McCain has kept the same plan where as Obama first said he'd pull the troops out emidiately while McCain wanted to "stay in Iraq for 100 years" and now says he'll leave a small force there to help the Iraqi's.

    Yet another flip flop by Obama.
    Obama didn't change his opinion about the war in Iraq. He has constantly said that it was a war of choice, which he opposed, and now he only repeats what he has always believed: the main front of the GWOT is Afghanistan not Iraq, so the faster the US withdraws from a situation where it has itself shot in the foot (AQ in Iraq) the better.
    Last edited by Oscar; 16 Jul 08, at 22:00.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Obama didn't change his opinion about the war in Iraq. He has constantly said that it was a war of choice, which he opposed, and now he only repeats what he has always believed: the main front of the GWOT is Afghanistan not Iraq, so the faster the US withdraws from a situation where it has itself shot in the foot (AQ in Iraq) the better.
    Thats true.

    Though consequently the costs of pulling out will be? Thats the big question. Republicans can argue and rightly so 'it's safer for us to continue being there' - For perhaps the death toll.

    But eventually, like Vietnam, one will have to pull out. Maybe your troops have stopped people killing one another, But Iraq is the hotbed between Shiite and Sunni - in parliament they are bitterly divided. So whilst Republicans are probably right in keeping troops there, one really does question heavily whether it's delaying the inevitable. I personally believe that it's deceiptfull to say in context the surge is working for peace and stability. This is well founded, The Baker Hamilton report hold similar pessimistic views.

    Easy to call the democrats 'cut and runners' but it's inherently pea brained. like the ostrich with it's head in the sand, "As long as my ass is parked here and im not looking it's O.K"

    So I don't know - it's good the violence is only simmering now. But how long must this go on till it is eradicated like Northern Ireland?

    Obama wins points on opposing the war because it was BS to begin with, most of the world knew that the CIA was pulling ******** from it's ass in astronomical proportions, yet so many statesiders beleive it was an honest mistake. World opinion back that sentiment unanimously, but nobody gives a **** anymore, the "I didn't support it then, so we should pull everything out" may not be the responsible way to go. Who knows.

    But Afghanistan is where the real fight is, and dare I say Pakistan too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chunder View Post
    But eventually, like Vietnam, one will have to pull out. Maybe your troops have stopped people killing one another, But Iraq is the hotbed between Shiite and Sunni - in parliament they are bitterly divided. So whilst Republicans are probably right in keeping troops there, one really does question heavily whether it's delaying the inevitable.
    Congress is bitterly divided too, maybe we should pull all our troops out of America now. After all, we are just delaying the inevitable. :P

    So I don't know - it's good the violence is only simmering now. But how long must this go on till it is eradicated like Northern Ireland?
    I guess peace and democracy in the Middle East is not a worthy goal if it has to take a few decades?

    Obama wins points on opposing the war because it was BS to begin with, most of the world knew that the CIA was pulling ******** from it's ass in astronomical proportions, yet so many statesiders beleive it was an honest mistake. World opinion back that sentiment unanimously
    Of course wars are won by referendum and popularity contests.

    But Afghanistan is where the real fight is, and dare I say Pakistan too.
    And why is that? Why is the fight at the place of the terrorists' choosing, and not at the place of our choosing?

    How many troops will it take to pacify the Pashtuns, to secure Afghanistan? Are we going to occupy the Pakistan frontier provinces? Or are we just going to kill everyone and salt the earth for good measure?
    Last edited by citanon; 19 Jul 08, at 10:03.

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    Maybe the US should become more isolationist...pull troops and diplomats from all foreign countries. Reinforce our borders...let the rest of the world deal with the ME.

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    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernLadyGA View Post
    Maybe the US should become more isolationist...pull troops and diplomats from all foreign countries. Reinforce our borders...let the rest of the world deal with the ME.
    Didn't work out so well for the Japanese when they tried that.

    -dale

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    Didn't work out so well for the Japanese when they tried that.

    -dale
    Not really comparable situations at all.
    I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.

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    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
    Not really comparable situations at all.
    Not in the details, but the general idea that any modern nation can withdraw into itself and eventually come out ahead is not sound. Which is kinda too bad, because I find it somewhat appealing.

    -dale

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    Not in the details, but the general idea that any modern nation can withdraw into itself and eventually come out ahead is not sound. Which is kinda too bad, because I find it somewhat appealing.

    -dale
    I too find certain types of isolationism to be appealing. I'm not entirely convinced, however, that it would inevitably result in a national decline in power to "avoid foreign entanglements." Economic isolation is a bad idea of course. Political, I dunno. Impossible to put in practice at this point, however.
    I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem View Post
    Not in the details, but the general idea that any modern nation can withdraw into itself and eventually come out ahead is not sound. Which is kinda too bad, because I find it somewhat appealing.

    -dale
    Agreed to an extent, we definitely should not meddle in the affairs of other countries unless they pose a danger to the US and at the same time we should really make sure our own country and its borders are safe and secure before we go around invading other people.

    Unfortunately we are the sole superpower so naturally people expect us to get involved in every little problem. Remember, whenever their is a disaster somewhere the US is always among the first to show up and offer aid so there are positive aspects to our global presence.

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    Will 'isolationism' stop our peace-loving muslim friends from attacking the "Great Satan" (and the Great Satans friends.)


    John.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ozjohn39 View Post
    Will 'isolationism' stop our peace-loving muslim friends from attacking the "Great Satan" (and the Great Satans friends.)


    John.
    Well, with isolationism, we'll have no friends, so that's at least one problem taken care of.

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    There's no way the US can go isolationnist. It has already refused to take its responsiblity once, after 1918 and look what happened. The world being afraid of a vacuum that still neither China nor any other power can fill yet, that would give way to so much instablity that America would have to intervene. A scheme like, until 1941, when the United States handled the security of its interests abroad (except for the Americas) to the UK is just unthinkable today.

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