Thread: How the minimum wage works

All jobs suck...........working for a living blows.
I knew i should have gone into politics.

Let me get this straight. The mom now puts in less of her time on the job but brings home the same money, and that is the kids gripe? I think he just wants her out of the house more so he can smoke dope in peace. If
I had the chance to work less and make the same money I would do it in a heartbeat. I work to live and do not live to work.

Originally Posted by bonehead

Let me get this straight. The mom now puts in less of her time on the job but brings home the same money, and that is the kids gripe? I think he just wants her out of the house more so he can smoke dope in peace. If
I had the chance to work less and make the same money I would do it in a heartbeat. I work to live and do not live to work.

I think you missed the lesson too

Originally Posted by gunnut

I think you missed the lesson too

You mean the one where Hillary is a professional liar, er, "politician", or the part about How bad min wage is supposed to be when in effect it is remarkably similar to Bush's economic stimulus plan, ie, putting money in the hands of the people who will spend it and thus help the economy?

Originally Posted by bonehead

You mean the one where Hillary is a professional liar, er, "politician", or the part about How bad min wage is supposed to be when in effect it is remarkably similar to Bush's economic stimulus plan, ie, putting money in the hands of the people who will spend it and thus help the economy?

No.

Mom used to work x hours at minimum wage. Now she's working at x-y hours at minimum wage. Dollar figures are the same, but the value has decreased.

I don't think and anecdotal example is the same as empirical data. The real earnings of the middle class failed to rise the last 8 years w/o a minimum wage increase. Coincidence or does raising the bottom of the boat raise the whole ship? i don't mind paying an extra nickel for my latte.
Let Justice Roll - Raise the State and Federal Minimum Wage seems to me some states with higher minimum wages have higher standards of living as well mmmmm a connection?????

Minimum wage trends: Understanding past and contemporary research They don't have the experience as a drug addled dope head Rush has but they have some credentials.

http://www.krueger.princeton.edu/90051397.pdf I never saw this stuff on Newsmax....maybe I should widen the net and get some facts with my opinions.


“The federal minimum wage increase of 1996/97 was followed by the best low-wage labor market outcomes in decades. When that proposed increase was under discussion, opponents predicted massive job losses among those affected by the increase... Instead, the employment rates of the least advantaged workers soared to unprecedented levels, poverty rates fell to historic lows, particularly for minority populations, the least skilled workers, and single mothers. Low wages rose in step with productivity growth for the first time in almost thirty years. Note that I do not claim that the federal minimum wage increase was solely responsible for these outcomes… But Congress should take note: the 1996/97 increase complemented these conditions; it did not preclude them.”


FACTS count

You make $15/hr. The minimum wage is $5/hr. You make 3 times the minimum wage. You have the purchasing power of 3 times the lowest paid workers.

Minimum wage goes up to $6/hr. Now you make 2.5 times the minimum wage.

Did you just get a pay cut?

Originally Posted by gunnut

You make $15/hr. The minimum wage is $5/hr. You make 3 times the minimum wage. You have the purchasing power of 3 times the lowest paid workers.

Minimum wage goes up to $6/hr. Now you make 2.5 times the minimum wage.

Did you just get a pay cut?

No one looses purchasing power because someone else's standard of living rises. We gain demand which creates new jobs and new opportunities for capitol. Your argument is specious at best and malevolent if the intent is to feel rich because others are poor.

Originally Posted by ba1025

No one looses purchasing power because someone else's standard of living rises. We gain demand which creates new jobs and new opportunities for capitol. Your argument is specious at best and malevolent if the intent is to feel rich because others are poor.

How much money do you make? Do you have any objections in making that the new minimum wage?

No but I'd be thrilled if they pegged it to an inflationary index. Currency devaluation is a result of deficits not minimum wages. That tax cut 6 years ago is behind the dollars fall not some future increase in minimum wage. Strangely once again cutting taxes didn't raise revenue.

A lot of folks seem to think government regulation and interference in capitalism is a bad thing. A lack of regulation is equally bad. Look at the mortgage crisis. Look at the poisonous toys and medicine produced in China under a hands off policy. Unbridled capitalism is every bit as deleterious. to our citizens as communism would be. Do you wish to return to the 19th century here? I don't understand the hardship with the minimum wage. Do you oppose Social Security as well? Do you wish to return to pre Social security/minimum wage America when charity supported our elderly and 70% lived below the poverty level and a days wages left a man starving? My Dad grew up eating unlabeled canned good. His Dad worked all day long as a Carpenter in Nahant MA where the Lowels, Lodges lived. They didn't have to pay him well there was no wage pressure. As the memory of the depression fades people forgot how we ended up with these programs and the evils they were set up to combat. The minimum wage is one of those evil things that slows the concentration of wealth. Do you think it's good for the country for the relative wealth of the top 1% to soar while the number living below the poverty line increases? That's what happened pre minimum wages and the last 10 years. As to myself i am one of those intolerable bleeding heart liberals that actually doesn't resent the government. i recognize everyone thinks the worst words anyone can hear are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" till they need that help. S@L crisis, the hedge fund bailout in 99, the bail out of bear sterns, the govt taking on massive bad mortgage debt, the rate banks borrow money plummeting while the rates on mortgages stagnate....seems to me there is a lot more govt interference going on that effects me the tax payer far more than the minimum wage increase. if you actually looked at where the tax base of this country is and what states receive more in govt funds than they pay in taxes you'd be shocked. Most of the so called liberal states pay far more in total taxes than they receive in govt spending. Those Westerners hate government but they suck awfully hard on the federal tit.

Originally Posted by ba1025

No one looses purchasing power because someone else's standard of living rises. We gain demand which creates new jobs and new opportunities for capitol. Your argument is specious at best and malevolent if the intent is to feel rich because others are poor.

But aren't wages just the market value, i.e. the price, of labor?

-dale

Originally Posted by ba1025

No

Aha so you do care about your relative purchasing power.

Originally Posted by ba1025

but I'd be thrilled if they pegged it to an inflationary index.

Pegging anything to inflation creates a positive feedback effect where one index drives another higher to drive itself higher.

Originally Posted by ba1025

Currency devaluation is a result of deficits not minimum wages.

No. Currency devaluation happens when 1) printing too much money and 2) money flowing to another economy.

Zimbabwe has a 100,000% inflation rate because its bank keeps printing money. When money is not scarce any more, it loses value.

We have been buying at a voracious rate over the last 15 years. Most of the manufactured goods came from abroad. Our money moved away. We have less. They have more. Our currency devaluates.

Originally Posted by ba1025

That tax cut 6 years ago is behind the dollars fall not some future increase in minimum wage.

No. Tax cut kept people in the financial market and continue to invest instead of keeping money in other investment options.

Originally Posted by ba1025

Strangely once again cutting taxes didn't raise revenue.

What was the federal revenue in 2000 and 2003?

Originally Posted by ba1025

A lot of folks seem to think government regulation and interference in capitalism is a bad thing. A lack of regulation is equally bad. Look at the mortgage crisis. Are you saying we should tighten up the lending standards? What if it resulted in more black people not being able to get loans? Are you racist? Look at the poisonous toys and medicine produced in China under a hands off policy. Are you saying we should regulate how the Chinese produce toys? Unbridled capitalism is every bit as deleterious. to our citizens as communism would be. Do you wish to return to the 19th century here? I don't understand the hardship with the minimum wage. Do you oppose Social Security as well? Yes I do. It is a scam. At the very least, the retirement age should have been indexed to the life expectancy since people live a lot longer today than in 1933. Do you wish to return to pre Social security/minimum wage America when charity supported our elderly and 70% lived below the poverty level and a days wages left a man starving? Do not tie pre social security and minimum wage to our prosperity. They do not have a cause and effect relation. They merely occured at around the same time in history. Or I can say our environment is cleaner 150 years ago but we have more regulations today. Coincidence? My Dad grew up eating unlabeled canned good. His Dad worked all day long as a Carpenter in Nahant MA where the Lowels, Lodges lived. They didn't have to pay him well there was no wage pressure. As the memory of the depression fades people forgot how we ended up with these programs and the evils they were set up to combat. Do you even know what caused the great depression? It was Hoover who put up trade barriers to our partners and raised upper level income tax that greatly worsened the stock market crash in 1929. The minimum wage is one of those evil things that slows the concentration of wealth. Do you think it's good for the country for the relative wealth of the top 1% to soar while the number living below the poverty line increases? What is the poverty line? What is poverty? That's what happened pre minimum wages and the last 10 years. As to myself i am one of those intolerable bleeding heart liberals I can tell from your lack of knowledge in economics and the abundant use of anecdotes that actually doesn't resent the government. i recognize everyone thinks the worst words anyone can hear are "I'm from the government and I'm here to help" till they need that help. S@L crisis, the hedge fund bailout in 99, the bail out of bear sterns, the govt taking on massive bad mortgage debt, the rate banks borrow money plummeting while the rates on mortgages stagnate....seems to me there is a lot more govt interference going on that effects me the tax payer far more than the minimum wage increase. if you actually looked at where the tax base of this country is and what states receive more in govt funds than they pay in taxes you'd be shocked. Most of the so called liberal states pay far more in total taxes than they receive in govt spending. And they have been complaining about it for years. It's OK to rip off the rich people to pay for the poor people but not OK to rip off the rich states to pay for the poor states Those Westerners hate government but they suck awfully hard on the federal tit. I don't understand. California is on the west coast. Are you saying California gets more federal money back than sending to the feds?

Liberals are all alike. They complain about the rich and want to rip them off to give to the poor. But when it comes to giving, they want nothing to do with it. They don't want to give voluntarily so they pass laws to make everyone give. It's a psychological defense against guilt and hatred of self.