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Reply With QuoteBA,Originally Posted by ba1025
Thanks for the link. Why should minimum wage cover a family of four? Why not a family of three? A family of two? Do people deserve a higher wage simply because they have more kids?
They commit some of the some errors seen in this thread, among them being myopic about compensation by focusing solely on income but not benefits when it comes to statistics. They beat up the perennial favorite, Wal-Mart, without looking at the thousands of dollars it saves for the very same lower income families that this piece uses five pages to talk about.
There are some very compelling stories in this piece, but more government regulation is not the answer. Enforcement of current laws and regulations and getting the word out to consumers is the best response.
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3
BA,
Thanks for the link. Why should minimum wage cover a family of four? Why not a family of three? A family of two? Do people deserve a higher wage simply because they have more kids?
"So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3
To add a question to Gunnuts question.I have a question here for Americans,
As an Aussie we have a minimum wage of $15 or so an hour (about $13US) government health care for all, a functioning education system and a generally much better standard of living.
Why do Americans not demand better, the US is a much wealthier country than Australia yet the lowest paid workers suffer unbelievably compared to ours.
I have thought many times that if they where to drop the wages and benefits in Australia to the level of the United States we would hang our leaders on lamp posts
And i dont accept the 'we cant afford it' line, if Australia can, America can
What's your defense budget?
To be Truly ignorant, Man requires an Education - Plato
To answer all your questions about the situation in Australia in personal and corporate tax as well as our defence budget:
My personal income tax is on a sliding scale but it tops at about 35% (give or take) for the last few thousand of my annual salary. Basically speaking i take home about $960 out of a pre tax income of $1300 (alhough my boss is required to add a further 9% superanuation. I also get 4 weeks paid holidays, 8 days sickleave and leave loading. Its really not such a bad deal when you think about it.
Corporate tax maxes out at about 30% and we also have a GST of 10% added onto most purchases apart from the basics (raw produce and the like)
Defence budget is generally done on a 5 or 8 year plan but it is generally between 2% and 3% and is enough to make us a regional power. You dont need 14 carrier battle groups, a multidivisional army and the worlds largest air force to be secure.
And to top it off the Aussie dollar is now sitting at almost $0.95US up from only $0.55 less than 10 years ago and we are looking at parity sometime early next year if the US economy continues to stagnate while ours continues to grow due to the seemingly never ending Chinese demand for our raw products.
In fact the Chinese are now making moves at buying some of our largest mining companies but our government is not too keen on the matter and i doubt anything will come of it. If the Chinese want it they have to buy it, owning the goose that lays our golden eggs aint happening.
Not bad at all. Are you for or against raising minimum wage?
Our corporate tax is just under 40% with politicians screaming about increasing it or "closing the loopholes." We have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world according to Wiki.
Of course you don't. We do it for you, and everyone else. Without the US dominance, other regional powers will be tempted to increase their influence to fill the power vacuum. At that time, everyone in the world will need to increase their defense spending, including you.
Excellent. Please buy more stuff from us and/or visit the states since things are relatively cheaper now.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
Im for giving a minimum wage at a reasonable level, Australia has a reasonable minimum wage that grows generally in line with inflation. I just dont understand why that is so difficult to apply in the US.Not bad at all. Are you for or against raising minimum wage?
And for all these income streams government funded healthcare for all, proper minimum wages and a functioning education system are beyond reach? You guys really need to ask for and expect betterOur corporate tax is just under 40% with politicians screaming about increasing it or "closing the loopholes." We have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world according to Wiki
Not necessarily. Its a very American attitute that the world is just waiting to F**k you up if you let your guard down for a second. If America had only 25% its power it would make not one iota of difference to Australias defence situation. China would still be buying raw materials from us, India would still be too busy squabbling with Pakistan and China to bother us for the next 50 years and we would still have the military power to wipe out ANY invasion fleet headed our way short of the bulk of the US navy dedicating itself to the invasion of Australia.Of course you don't. We do it for you, and everyone else. Without the US dominance, other regional powers will be tempted to increase their influence to fill the power vacuum. At that time, everyone in the world will need to increase their defense spending, including you.
Im all for having a strong defence force but you forget that the defence force serves the interest of the state, its not an entity in itself and when the money used to maintain a massive defence force cuts into money that can be better used in the bettering of the state then the money is being misused.
Im not America bashing by any means but i do believe its about time Americans took a good hard look at their leaders and asked who is being best served by the policies in place.
What is reasonable? And what drives the inflation? If you index your wage (any wage) to inflation, it will start to drive the inflation and create a positive feedback loop.
You're right. We should ask for better. There's a lot of government waste. I will not argue with that. Our politicians like to stuff every single legislation with pet projects that bring jobs back home. It's our form of welfare. I am totally against these pork projects.
You are lucky. Just like us, Australia has natural barriers that protects it from invation. The "Fortress America" and "Fortress Australia" concept that we hear so much about. But not everyone is so lucky. Look at Africa, southeast Asia, India/Pakistan, the Balkans, the Middle East, the entire world is a powder keg that can very well blow up if no one's there to keep a boot on the thing. We had 2 World Wars that started with regional powers fighting for dominance. These regional powers had alliances. The problem with alliances is that they normally don't act to put out the small fires. They come in when fit hit the shan. And that's just a little too late. Ever noticed that we haven't had a world war since the US took over the policing of the world?
You have the classic euro socialist view of the world. I don't mean that as an insult, just describing what I see here. A nation's first duty is to provide the citizens a peaceful home, welfare or not. That can be a strong defense to deters any invasion or in our case, a relatively peaceful world so everyone can do business together and improve trade. Would you rather have half the world constantly fighting while your home is far away and free from this fight, or spend a lot of money to make sure most of the world is at peace so your people can do business all over the world?
I heard a historian talking about the end of the Cold War and the so-called "peace dividend." He said we shouldn't dismantle our military and spend the money on social programs just because the cold war is over and there's this thing called peace dividend. The peace from the peace dividend is the dividend. We must maintain it and protect it even more vigorously lest it goes to waste.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
What is UTC?
I believe that is the average American Family size. i can't say for sure i didn't do the study. I think the point of that is to show the minimum wage has fallen a great deal in relation to inflation and the vast majority of the country had raised it already. It would seem it wouldn't be outrageous to have the federal wage better reflect the will of the majority
Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
~Ronald Reagan
united technologies
Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
~Ronald Reagan
Our corporate tax is just under 40% with politicians screaming about increasing it or "closing the loopholes." We have the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the industrialized world according to Wiki.
.So corporate rates may be high but actual receipts are 2/3 lower than they were in the 50s as a % of federal revenue. Something to keep in mind about social security taxes is right now we collect twice what the program is costing and spend the rest as regular tax revenue. Stop getting your news from opinion shows. the heritage foundation had a pie graph that showed revenue and expense i loved linking but they took it down or i cant find it anymoreWhere Does Federal Revenue Come From?
The past 75 years have seen marked changes in the sources of federal revenue. In 1934 excise taxes accounted for almost half of all revenue, and income taxes were about one-fourth; payroll taxes barely registered on the scale. Social Security began collecting taxes in 1937 and quickly grew to one-fourth of revenue in three years. By 1940, income taxes and excise taxes each accounted for about one-third of tax receipts. The individual income tax’s share of revenue more than tripled during World War II, and the corporate income tax’s share doubled. In 1945 the two combined to bring in three-fourths of all federal revenue; excise taxes had fallen to 14 percent of revenue, and payroll taxes were half that.
The share of revenue from individual income taxes has changed little since then, fluctuating between 40 percent and 50 percent. Meanwhile payroll taxes soared, while excise taxes plummeted and corporate taxes became less important. The share of taxes coming from payroll taxes more than quadrupled to between 35 percent and 40 percent, in large part because of periodic increases in Social Security taxes and the 1965 creation of Medicare. After a brief resurgence in the 1950s, excise taxes steadily waned, dropping to just 3 percent of all federal tax receipts in 2006. Corporate income taxes followed a more erratic course, drifting downward from roughly one-third of revenue in the late 1940s and early 1950s to less than half that in the 1970s. Since then corporate taxes have hovered around 10 percent of federal tax receipts
Corporations are taxed far less than 50 years ago not far more. Which really brings into question the double taxation argument. We already know corporate profits as a share of the economy have risen slightly since the 50s yet the tax burden has shifted off them by 20% the amount of the social security surplus as a % of the federal non social security expenses. I think you need to look on the source that told you 40% with some skeptism
Last edited by Roosveltrepub; 22 Apr 08, at 15:17.
Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
~Ronald Reagan
Corporate tax in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tax - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Larger corporations pay just under 40% in tax rates. We should reduce corporate tax rates to increase tax revenue.
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
[QUOTE}Case in point: The United States has the second highest corporate tax rate of the 30 countries in the Organization of Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD). But because the United States has so many generous special tax preferences for businesses, it collects the fourth lowest corporate tax revenues as a share of GDP among all OECD countries.[/QUOTE]
Corporate Taxes, in Need of Reform - Brookings Institution
Like I said as has been noted the division of earning between labor and industry was virtually unchanged till this decade and industry has gained a bit recently. In the mean time labor provides far more in govt revenue than Industry. Corporate welfare - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
i never disputed the supposed 40% rate just that most pay hardly anything as a percent of earnings compared to the middle class. having a high rate is like window dressing when their are billions in loopholes approved every year ...year in and tear out.
Yes corporate taxes as a % of tax revenues is 1/3 what it was 50 years ago
it provided 33% of revenue then it provides 10% now. Since labor and industries slice of the pie is virtually unchanged then yes they pay much lless.
No i dont want Bush to run our national health care. I think it's evident by his running up huge deficits when we had begun to pay down debt to prepare for future social security obligations he or his kind would be poor choices. rember "the Lockbox" Bush tossed it out with the bathwater
Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
~Ronald Reagan
So is there a "correct" percentage of tax revenue that must derive from corporate taxes?
Bush is irrelavent here. We cannot allow politicians to get their hands on our money. They will want to spend it. When there's a surplus, they'll make more programs. When there's a deficit, those programs don't go away like how you and I and businesses deal with a deficit. They will just look for money elsewhere.
Let's just say Bush is at fault here and we don't let him run our national health care system. We let Obama or Hillary or McCain run it. How can you make sure that there will never be another politicians who will spend our "lockbox" cash for the health care system?
"Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.
[QUOTE=ba1025;486513]No i dont want Bush to run our national health care. I think it's evident by his running up huge deficits when we had begun to pay down debt to prepare for future social security obligations he or his kind would be poor choices. rember "the Lockbox" Bush tossed it out with the bathwaterThis is a good example of Democrat debate strategy here. Gunnut you are obviously making your case well because when most Dems start running out of pointless points, they automatically start blaming everything on Bush. Its classic.
Even when the dems were debating each other before the primaries, the answer to nearly every question usually began with, contained or ended with "unlike the Bush/current administration". I swear you would think they were running against GW again! Good Job!
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