The Blue-State Tax Burden

**Bill** · 19 Dec 04, 18:49

Lucien answered the liberal best.

Sigh...

**nickshepAK** · 19 Dec 04, 18:56

Originally Posted by Bluesman

One more pass, then I'm giving up on getting you to understand this...

Here we go:
She's a liberal. Liberals want a progressive tax code, which is what we've got. It's what makes her pay what she considers a disproportinate amount for the war in Iraq, as well as what she LIKES paying for. Therefore, she is philosophically confused about how much she's on the hook for. She supported a 'soak the rich' party and still does. Well, she's rich. So she gets the bill to a greater extent than her standard-of-living counterpart in Kansas. She doesn't think that's fair. Boohoo.

Does she get to opt out of paying for the Iraq war? Not unless conservatives like me get to opt of of paying for NPR and crucifxes in jars of urine. She and her party resists a flatter tax, and she calls this 'fair'. If it is, then it's fair for her to pay a higher percentage than a red-stater at a comparable standard of living.

I don't call her a hypocrite for not wanting to pay for things she doesn't support. I call her a hypocrite because she thinks that people less-wealthy than herself that voted for Bush and his policies should pay MORE. That's not how it works, and she knows it, but she doesn't want to conform to the tax code that she supports IF IT GOES AGAINST HER WISHES.

I read the whole letter. In it, she says she's a Kerry voter and a liberal. Fine. She wants to be a liberal, she pays what a liberal says she should pay in taxes, andthat's for ALL of what the governemtn does, not just what she likes. Voting a certain way doesn't mean you get a tax break. I know you're not saying it should, but this resentment of having consequences for supporting a tax code that penalizes you is childish.

And hypocritical.

I understand. Its just hard to give up on your arguement even if your wrong, I guess. I agree that people should responsible for theirself but I also believe strongly in helping those who are less fortunate.

**nickshepAK** · 19 Dec 04, 19:02

When I start arguements here I always think to myself what are you doing you are gonna get reemed. You are not as smart as these guys their gonna destroy you. But hey, Im trying. I wish I had someone like James Carville typing my answers for me. LOL

Leme ask you guys a question. Is their any topic's, policies, or anything that Democrats are right on?

**Bluesman** · 19 Dec 04, 19:11

Originally Posted by nickshepAK

When I start arguements here I always think to myself what are you doing you are gonna get reemed. You are not as smart as these guys their gonna destroy you. I wish I had someone like James Carville typing my answers for me.

Leme ask you guys a question. Is their any topic's, policies, or anything that Democrats are right on?

Dude, let me get your first statement FIRST.

I'm not reaming you, scooter. I wish we were face-to-face, because I am typing with a smile on my face, but you can't see it. Yo, man, you mah nigga, aight?

I like you, I respect you, and I think you're every bit as smart as anybody else in here. As they used to tell another famous liberal when he'd be defeated again and again in the Senate: 'Keep punchin', Hubert".

And he did, too.

That's why people respected Senator Humphrey. So stick to your guns, and know that even when I'm in opposition to what you're saying, I'm still friendly. Okay?

**Bluesman** · 19 Dec 04, 19:14

Now, then, when are Democrats and liberals on the 'right' side of the argument?

Hm. Toughie.

**Bluesman** · 19 Dec 04, 19:14

Lemme think...

**nickshepAK** · 19 Dec 04, 19:15

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Dude, let me get your first statement FIRST.

I'm not reaming you, scooter. I wish we were face-to-face, because I am typing with a smile on my face, but you can't see it. Yo, man, you mah nigga, aight?

I like you, I respect you, and I think you're every bit as smart as anybody else in here. As they used to tell another famous liberal when he'd be defeated again and again in the Senate: 'Keep punchin', Hubert".

And he did, too.

That's why people respected Senator Humphrey. So stick to your guns, and know that even when I'm in opposition to what you're saying, I'm still friendly. Okay?

What about the second question. Do conservatives like yourself think the Democrats are right about anything? Even more do you think conservatives are wrong about anything?

**Bluesman** · 19 Dec 04, 19:15

Wellll...there's......................

Hmmm.....

**Bluesman** · 19 Dec 04, 19:15

OH! I KNOW! There's...ummm...wait a minute...

**nickshepAK** · 19 Dec 04, 19:15

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Wellll...there's......................

Hmmm.....

LOL.

**Bluesman** · 19 Dec 04, 19:16

Hey, lemme get back to you on that.

I'll do some research.

**Confed999** · 19 Dec 04, 19:33

Originally Posted by nickshepAK

I also believe strongly in helping those who are less fortunate.

I also believe in helping others, but should someone be forced to help? The person in your letter doesn't like being forced to help everyone, just the positions she supports. You probably feel the same way, I know I do. The person in your letter cannot pick what the legislature spends money on, anymore than you or I can.

**Bluesman** · 19 Dec 04, 19:42

Originally Posted by Confed999

I also believe in helping others, but should someone be forced to help? The person in your letter doesn't like being forced to help everyone, just the positions she supports. You probably feel the same way, I know I do. The person in your letter cannot pick what the legislature spends money on, anymore than you or I can.

A very good point. There is no virtue in being forced to contribute to the general welfare of society.

One of the things I never tire of is pointing out to liberals that there are four kinds of spending:

1) Spending your money on yourself. Cost and quality is important.

2) Spending somebody else's money on yourself. Quality is important; cost is no object.

3) Spending your money on somebody else. Cost is important. Quality is not a factor.

4) Spending somebody else's money on somebody else. Cost and quality are completely irrelevant. THIS is the type of spending government does. This is why government is a terrible distributor of resources. Liberals LIKE this type of spending. Conservatives don't. And that's why I'm a conservative.

**Julie** · 19 Dec 04, 20:44

Originally Posted by Bluesman

One of the things I never tire of is pointing out to liberals that there are four kinds of spending:

4) Spending somebody else's money on somebody else. Cost and quality are completely irrelevant. THIS is the type of spending government does. This is why government is a terrible distributor of resources. Liberals LIKE this type of spending. Conservatives don't. And that's why I'm a conservative.

Hmmmm....then can you explain your Item #4 which is applicable to our money being spent in Iraq, blowing our deficit out of proportion? And, if you can successfully do this, how does this deficit spending make Bush conservative?

**Bluesman** · 19 Dec 04, 21:06

Originally Posted by Julie

Hmmmm....then can you explain your Item #4 which is applicable to our money being spent in Iraq, blowing our deficit out of proportion? And, if you can successfully do this, how does this deficit spending make Bush conservative?

I never said that spending type #4 isn't necessary. In the case of national security, it's ALWAYS necessary, and reasonable people can disagree about how much spending is enough or too much.

Frankly, I think we're getting a good deal in Iraq, IF we get to the results hoped for. That means staying the course; and that means more money has to be spent. John Kerry agreed on this, and even went so far as to say explicitly that NOT ENOUGH money was going to Iraq; as President he would spend even more.

So, the subject transcends the Democrat/Republican relationship; it's about national security. When it has to do with THAT, all other considerations are trumped.

As far as 'blowing our deficit out of proportion', that is an interesting turn of phrase you used, because as a percentage of our GDP, the deficit is VERY low, almost to the vanishing point. Deficits only really matter when they consume capital from the private sector, and prevent more from being formed, driving interest rates up. That isn't happening here. The deficit is literally not significant, and keep in mind what form most of the deficit takes: government securities, owned by institutions and individuals as a hedge against economic volatility or as a tax-protected asset.

It doesn't represent unpaid bills; it isn't government defaulting on payment. It isn't dangerous. Government deficits are almost always NOT a Good Thing to a conservative, but there are degrees of 'bad', and this doesn't really count, because it doesn't really hurt, nor is it immoral, as profligate spending on wasteful government programs is.

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