Thread: WHO is sending this much cash to Democrats, and what do they hope to buy with it?

Commies helping other commies get elected, like the comintern once again. It makes sense.

bluesman,

there certainly have been cases of chinese spying/money-influence in the US, but until i see information that connects Hsu's activities to china, tying hsu's case to true cases of chinese influence smacks of racism.

the man's not even a former chinese national. he was born in HK in the 50s and came to the US at 18.

Originally Posted by astralis

bluesman,

there certainly have been cases of chinese spying/money-influence in the US, but until i see information that connects Hsu's activities to china, tying hsu's case to true cases of chinese influence smacks of racism.

the man's not even a former chinese national. he was born in HK in the 50s and came to the US at 18.

Uh-huh. I'm a racist because I noticed a pattern.

Take it back, goddammit.

bluesman,

i'll take it back if hsu's case does prove to be a chinese funding effort, as opposed to a conman's own effort to buy power.

i'm not arguing against your main point here. i'm arguing against you using hsu's case to back up on your main point.

Originally Posted by astralis

bluesman,

i'll take it back if hsu's case does prove to be a chinese funding effort, as opposed to a conman's own effort to buy power.

No, because your charge that I'm a racist doesn't hinge on whether what I allege turns out to be true or not. It's merely a cheap smear on me because I happen to notice that Chinese 'fund-raisers' for Democrats have a tendency to be PRC government agents.

And let me mention right now that I think one of the ugliest things one person can say about another is that they're racist when they're not. So I'm taking this extremely personally.

Furthermore, and this doesn't really bear on anything but my OP (certainly has nothing to do with THIS part of the thread, the part I'm having a serious problem with), Hsu actually has an old connection with some of Bill Clinton's old leash-holders, the ones that fled to China and other Asian countries to avoid answering questions from the FEC.

So, there is GOOD reason to believe what I believe, and the only time RACE enters into it is when the thread that runs through the whole sordid collection of bag-men/agents-of-influence is one of ethnic heritage tied to a certain national origin.

i'm not arguing against your main point here. i'm arguing against you using hsu's case to back up on your main point.

Then put it another way. Because slurring me as a racist is WAY beyond the pale, and if you don't back down RIGHT NOW, I'll seek to have you banned.

You really can have no idea how OFFENDED I am by that characterization.

bluesman,

No, because your charge that I'm a racist doesn't hinge on whether what I allege turns out to be true or not. It's merely a cheap smear on me because I happen to notice that Chinese 'fund-raisers' for Democrats have a tendency to be PRC government agents.

certainly not. your argument works as thus: chinese funding goes to democrats. hsu is an example of this; at the very least, "Some are tied to the Chinese government, and there are even relationships with the People's Liberation Army! "

aka guilty by association. and not even on basis of NATIONALITY, because hsu was NOT a chinese national (although he IS racially han). why did you not accuse hsu of pushing british interests? in which way is hsu chinese, except by...race?

And let me mention right now that I think one of the ugliest things one person can say about another is that they're racist when they're not. So I'm taking this extremely personally.

no, i'm not accusing you of outright racism, as if you were some KKK thug. however, i find it ridiculous that you're using hsu as an example, when you can use someone like katrina leung.

Furthermore, and this doesn't really bear on anything but my OP (certainly has nothing to do with THIS part of the thread, the part I'm having a serious problem with), Hsu actually has an old connection with some of Bill Clinton's old leash-holders, the ones that fled to China and other Asian countries to avoid answering questions from the FEC.

show me evidence, and i back down.

Then put it another way. Because slurring me as a racist is WAY beyond the pale, and if you don't back down RIGHT NOW, I'll seek to have you banned.

You really can have no idea how OFFENDED I am by that characterization.

see above. i'm more than willing to apologize if given proof. but absent that proof, what can i think but that you're connecting dots just because the man has a chinese name?

i don't go around idly insulting people without cause.

FREEDOM EDEN: Norman Hsu
Leading Clinton Donor Stays Below the Radar - WSJ.com
2008 Election - Norman Hsu
wheather it is a proof you decide, but it is definatly an evidence.

omon,

again, none of the links you show contain any evidence or even allegation that hsu's funding is connected to china.

Originally Posted by astralis

omon,

again, none of the links you show contain any evidence or even allegation that hsu's funding is connected to china.

ops, ok i'll look more, i,m not saying he is, nor he isn,t, i,m also curious who is he connected to. cuz he most likely isn,t spending the money just for the hell of it.

astalis, you might be right, i,ve looked all over the net, for this guy, nothing suggests his ties to china, there are numerous versions, of his activitys, apparel industry(could be fake gucci bags), and latex glove industry, even involvment in organised crime(triad), he has given big donations to many dem. candidats, (why dems. alone?) , imo he is just dirty buissnesman. but i could be wrong.

Alright, we've got two large problems here:

Astralis: Tarring somebody with the brush of racism without cause is a fine way to get banned.

I happen to know Bluesman personally as well as here on the board and I haven't ever seen a hint of racism in the man. Nor does his intial post "smack of racism". Whether his belief is true or not, it's not racism. Calling Norman Hsu various racial epithets would definitely qualify, but he hasn't done that, or anything close to that.

Unless you have proof, I am asking you now to apologize to Bluesman for such a gross insult.

Bluesman,
As much as something like baselessly being called a racist here on the board can sting (and I know this from personal experience), it is also against the forum guidelines to publicly request that a member be banned.
If there's a rule violation, please PM one of the staff first.

An apology to Astralis for this is also requested.

Guys, everybody:
There's been too much heat on the board lately. Can we all please cool down, shake hands and move on?

Agreed on both counts.
I'd add that tying Norman Hsu to the PRC because he is ethnic Chinese isn't racist (which is all too easy a call to slap down the opposition), it is however sloppy and lazy, using generalities for specific cases.

You're both off mark here, you're both valued here (not least by each other), back down please.

1. Where was Norman Hsu born?

2. When and where did Norman Hsu flee to when faced with imprisonment on fraud conviction (the first time)?

3. When did he return?

4. When did the Clinton campaign finance scandal (the first one involving Chinese bag-men) erupt?

5. How many people skipped bail and fled to the PRC in connection with that scandal, rather than face questions from the FEC?

6. How much was Hsu's bail (this time)?

7. WHY was ICE involved in Hsu's arrest in Colorado? He's an American citizen, so what jurisdiction does ICE have in the matter?

8. As a convicted felon and moreover was one that had already skipped bail, and even more unbelievable, had never surrendered his passport, was Norman Hsu entitled to bail after turning himself in? Could he be considered a flight risk?

The answers:

1. Honk Kong.

2. Hong Kong, 1992.

3. 1996.

4. 1996, when, it should be noticed, MANY Chinese donors to the Democrats were 'deployed' by the PRC and her army to influence an American election...and the same year Norman Hsu - a fugitive from American justice - was somehow allowed to re-enter the United States.

5. 120+, which is a HUGE number to just leave everything behind: real estate and other property, possessions, careers, friends, and bank accounts, and it accounts for every single last one of the people that could've told investigators exactly where the contributions came from, and what the intent of the donors was. Strange, not ONE of these people were around to stand trial, or even to re-claim their bail money or their property. It's almost as if they knew they'd be taken care of if they fled to China, like they wouldn't really miss their millions of dollars that they ran away from. And there seems to have been no effort by US authorities to impede their flight, either: no passports were confiscated, no watch-lists compiled at international departures, not one single person was actually incarcerated, even after it became apparent that anybody connected to the scandal was disappearing and showing up in China. Really WEIRD.

6. $2 MILLION, and he lost every cent of it as soon as he missed his hearing. Almost like this 'businessman' didn't even CARE about that much money, that he figgered he'd be okay, if he could just get away...but to WHERE? WHERE would Norman Hsu be likely to go?

7. Because he was about to run to China, that's why. Borders work both ways, and Norman Hsu was about to bolt for the home office, and that's why ICE got involved.

8. No, and oh, HELL yes.

Some more questions that I do NOT happen to have the answer to:

A. So just how DID he get bail? Who was the bonehead that granted it? And WHY?

B. What is the source of Hsu's contributions? He certainly has no visible means of generating nor even processing the kinds of figures he's responsible to have given to Democratic politicians across 10 states. But when his 'companies' are investigated, they're all fakes, frauds, shells, and fronts.

C. What was Norman Hsu's purpose in doing all this financial work on behalf of Democrats? What would this 'businessman' that doesn't do any business be giving all this money away hope to gain? Is he just so in love with the Democratic plan to re-write the US Constitution to allow convicted felons, such as himself, to vote again that he'd rather contribute millions instead of living a life of great luxury and personal fulfillment?

D. What the hell is wrong with the Democrats that they can't ever see how morally bankrupt their entire party is, and that supporting this crew of criminals is nothing short of treason?

E. And who here thinks that astralis wasn't purposefully dragging this thread off on a personal tangent to avoid the REAL point: the PRC has found common cause with the Democratic Party, and has expressed a preference for which party will govern its main enemy?

bluesman,

in the spirit of what the moderators just said, let me try this again without flinging about charges of racism.

from my original posting, i have already told you that i am dealing with a side-issue here and not the original claim. in other words, i'm not trying to befuddle the debate, i'm here to correct your use of facts. had you used katrina leung or any of the other completely legitimate examples of chinese governmental interference with US politics, i would not have said a word.

by the way, i might remind you: when Norman was born, and also in 1992 and 1996, Hong Kong was a British Crown Colony. in other words, that territory was not China's...which again begs the question, past the vaguest of associations (ethnic Han), is there any proof or evidence at all that you can tie Norman Hsu to the PRC.

standing by.