Thread: WHO is sending this much cash to Democrats, and what do they hope to buy with it?

Wow, I thought a conviction pretty much was a proven case of corruption. You list Hillary, and she hasn't even been charged with anything. With rules like that, of course you will win. But that's how Republicans always win, by changing the rules. Tom Delay would be a good example of that.

I'll just list a batch, and yall can cherry-pick which ones count and which ones doesn't.

David Safavian, Former Bush Administration Official – Safavian, the former White House Chief of Procurement and former Chief of Staff for the General Services Administration, was indicted on September 19, 2006 on five counts of lying about his dealings with former lobbyist Jack Abramoff and obstructing a Senate investigation of his dealings. Safavian resigned from his White House position three days prior to his arrest.

Former Rep. Tom Delay (R-TX) – Tom DeLay, who was forced to step down from his position as House Majority Leader and then resign from Congress, decided in 2006 not to run for re-election. Congressman DeLay has been embroiled in a series of scandals from bribery to influence peddling, and was indicted twice by grand juries in Texas.


The following people are implicated in accepting contributions from Abramoff:
Richard Shelby (REPUBLICAN SENATOR - AL)
Robert Riley (REPUBLICAN GOVENOR- AL)
Ted Stevens (REPUBLICAN SENATOR - AK)
J. D. Hayworth (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - AZ)
Dana Rohrabacher (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - CA)
Doug Ose (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - CA)
Richard Pombo (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - CA)
John Doolittle (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - CA)
Ed Royce (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - CA)
Scott McInnis (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - CO)
Rob Simmons (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - CT)
Tom Feeney (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - FL)
Ric Keller (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - FL)
John Isakson (REPUBLICAN SENATOR - GA)
Saxby Chambliss (REPUBLICAN SENATOR - CA)
Jack Kingston (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - GA)
Michael Simpson (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - ID)
Butch Otter (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - ID)
Jerry Walker (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - IL)
Dan Burton (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - IN)
Charles Grassley (REPUBLICAN SENATOR - IA)
BOB EHRLICH (REPUBLICAN GOVENOR- MD)
Dave Camp (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - MI)
Gil Gutknecht (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - MN)
Christopher Bind (REPUBLICAN SENATOR- MO)
Jim Talent (REPUBLICAN SENATOR- MO)
Charles Pickering (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - MS)
Roger Wicker (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - MS)
Thad Cochran (REPUBLICAN SENATOR- MS)
Dennis Rehberg (REPUBLICAN SENATOR- MT)
Jon Christensen (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - NE)
John Ensign (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - NV)
Roger Wicker (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - MS)
Jim Saxton (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - NJ)
Frank LoBiondo (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - NJ)
Mike Ferguson (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - NJ)
Heather Wilson (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - NM)
Charles Taylor (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - NC)
Walter Jones (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - NC)
Bob Ney (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - OH)
Jean Schmidt (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - OH)
Ralph Regula (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - OH)
Ernest Istook (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - OK)
Jean Schmidt (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - OH)
James Inhofe (REPUBLICAN SENATOR- OK)
Tom Coburn (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - OK)
Gordon Smith (REPUBLICAN SENATOR- OR)
Arlen Specter (REPUBLICAN SENATOR- PA)
Curt Weldon (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - PA)
Joe Pitts (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - PA)
John Thune (REPUBLICAN SENATOR - SD)
Bill Janklow (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - SD)
Van Hilleary (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - TN)
Tom DeLay (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - TX)
Roy Blunt (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - TX)
Chris Cannon (REPUBLICAN SENATOR- UT)
Eric Canter (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - VA)
Randy Forbes (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - VA)
George Allen (REPUBLICAN SENATOR- VA)
Tom Davis (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - VA)
George Nethercutt (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - WA)
Doc Hastings (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - WA)
Dave Reichert (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - WA)
Mark Green (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - WI)
Paul Ryan (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - WI)
Shelly Moore Capito (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - WV)
Mike Enzi (REPUBLICAN SENATOR- WY)
Barbara Cubin (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - WY)

Originally Posted by Julie

Wow, I thought a conviction pretty much was a proven case of corruption.

It IS, but I specified that a conviction was NOT necessary IN THE RULES BEFORE WE STARTED.

HERE, and for ONCE, READ THE DAM' POST:

Originally Posted by Bluesman

And no 'appearance of wrong-doing' crap, either. Conviction in court not necessary, but raw, naked political corruption, whether there is a 'controlling legal authority' or not. (Look up that phrase; it's my first entry in the race.)

You list Hillary, and she hasn't even been charged with anything.

I list Hillary for the precise reason that she accepted illegal money, and there doesn't need for there to be conviction in court for us all to see that. Do a Google Search on 'Paw political donations', and you'll have just ONE example of WHY she's corrupt, and WHY we all dam' well KNOW she's corrupt.

With rules like that, of course you will win.

Those ARE the rules, and what the hell is so unfair about 'em? Cuts for you, too, so stop whining and get ON with it, or concede that you were talking out your ass, like you usually do, when you said Republicans are more corrupt than Democrats.

But that's how Republicans always win, by changing the rules.

Republicans win because they have policies that promote freedom, strength, and properity. Democrats win by pork, fear, and smear tactics.

Tom Delay would be a good example of that.

Tom Delay is a GREAT example of a Democratic zealot using his office as a blunt instrument to attack a political opponent.

I'll just list a batch, and yall can cherry-pick which ones count and which ones doesn't.

Oh, no, we're REAL clear on the rules, and it is immediately apparent when somebody meets the definition. For instance:

David Safavian, Former Bush Administration Official – Safavian, the former White House Chief of Procurement and former Chief of Staff for the General Services Administration, was indicted on September 19, 2006 on five counts of lying about his dealings with former lobbyist Jack Abramoff and obstructing a Senate investigation of his dealings. Safavian resigned from his White House position three days prior to his arrest.

Oh HELL yes, HE counts, and that's a dam' good hit. BUT...

Former Rep. Tom Delay (R-TX) – Tom DeLay, who was forced to step down from his position as House Majority Leader and then resign from Congress, decided in 2006 not to run for re-election. Congressman DeLay has been embroiled in a series of scandals from bribery to influence peddling, and was indicted twice by grand juries in Texas.

THAT one is 'iffy'. His TACTICS smelled bad, but I don't think he's guilty of corruption in a legal sense, just a hell-bent desire for GOP ascendancy that was 1) effective as all HELL, and therefore drove the Democrats WILD with rage, and 2) unseemly, because, like many Democrats, he let his K Street Project be fueled with money of questionable origin, and he was willing to go right up to the legal line, and forgot that there is a mark well short of it that is ethically dangerous.

So NO, no matter insane and unwarranted Ronnie Earle's persecution of Delay was, he was never in any danger of going to jail, because he broke no law. BUT, in the spirit of sportsmanship, we'll spot you that one, because there is no denying that Delay DID do creepy stuff with dodgy people, no matter if it were technically not breaking any laws. Our system wasn't designed for that sort of gamesmanship and rules lawyering, and Delay, just because he's cunning enough to not get busted for riding the line, should get no respect.

BUT...no sale on any of the rest. Abramoff was involved with a few Democrats, as well, don't forget, but remember: no 'appearance of impropriety' crap, just cut-and-dried, easy-to-see, know-it-when-you-see-it CORRUPTION.

After reviewing the Abramoff story, frankly, I think you're onto a rich vein of ore, here. You very well MAY be competitive if you use all the REAL cases of GOP stinkers that were involved.

Originally Posted by Bluesman

NAH, a NEW one. Check it out: (from Malkin) ELEVEN Democrats just got stung:

What can anyone say? Business as usual in New Jersey. I worked on a subcommittee whose chairman was a dem from New Jersey; great guy; great heart. He got "help" from the unions, if you know what I mean. He was in the hospital when a union lobbyist came to visit; on the way out of the hospital room, the lobbyist slipped an envelope of cash into the congressman's bathrobe pocket. To help with expenses... The congressman was a big union fan. He got stung in Abscam along with Sen Pete Williams (D-NJ) and others and went to jail. Who was he?

Originally Posted by JAD_333

What can anyone say? Business as usual in New Jersey. I worked on a subcommittee whose chairman was a dem from New Jersey; great guy; great heart. He got "help" from the unions, if you know what I mean. He was in the hospital when a union lobbyist came to visit; on the way out of the hospital room, the lobbyist slipped an envelope of cash into the congressman's bathrobe pocket. To help with expenses... The congressman was a big union fan. He got stung in Abscam along with Sen Pete Williams (D-NJ) and others and went to jail. Who was he?

Was that Thompson?

Nah, I bet is was 'Torch'. Right?

Originally Posted by Bluesman

It IS, but I specified that a conviction was NOT necessary IN THE RULES BEFORE WE STARTED.

I disagree - the nature of the conviction is relevant. Corruption implies a misuse of office and power as opposed to simple bad judgement.

But I'm still more interested in Julie's incredible double standard.

-dale

Originally Posted by dalem

I disagree - the nature of the conviction is relevant. Corruption implies a misuse of office and power as opposed to simple bad judgement.

But I'm still more interested in Julie's incredible double standard.

-dale

ME double standard? Blues lists Hillary as accepting illegal monies as being corrupt, BUT then says my list of ones accepting money from Abramoff is "iffy?" Oh, please.

Originally Posted by Bluesman

After reviewing the Abramoff story, frankly, I think you're onto a rich vein of ore, here. You very well MAY be competitive if you use all the REAL cases of GOP stinkers that were involved.

Then let's discuss the Americans for a Republican Majority (also ARMPAC) was a political action committee formed by former Republican House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and directed by Karl Gallant. On July 7, 2006 ARMPAC reached an agreement with the Federal Election Commission to pay a fine of $115,000 for various violations and to shut down operations. It filed its termination papers on April 24, 2007. Enron hosted ARMPAC's first fundraiser. ARMPAC was housed in the same Washington, D.C. townhouse and shared many of the same former DeLay staffers as Alexander Strategy Group and U.S. Family Network, two organizations that closed as part of the scandals surrounding Jack Abramoff. An FEC audit of ARMPAC's activities during the 2002 campaign cycle (January 1, 2000 to December 31, 2002) found failures to report debts, contributions, and assets, as well as a failure to properly separate federal and non-federal spending. The audit was conducted in August 2005.

The following people are implicated by accepting contributions from ARMPAC:

Robert Riley (REPUBLICAN GOVENOR - AL)
Marilyn Musgrave (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE- CO)
Jim Nussle (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - IA)
Matt Blunt (REPUBLICAN GOVENTOR- MO)
Roy Blunt (REPUBLICAN MAJORITY LEADER - MO)
Jon Christensen (FORMER REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE- NE)
Jeb Bradley (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - NH)
John Sununu (REPUBLICAN SENATOR - NH)
Jean Schmidt (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - OH)
Joe Wilson(REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - SC)
Gresham Barrett (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - SC)
Henry Brown (REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE - SC)

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Republicans win because they have policies that promote freedom, strength, and properity. Democrats win by pork, fear, and smear tactics.

Wait a minute now, you are insinuating Republicans doesn't like pork? You really want to open THAT can of worms? Does Republican Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska come to mind? The $315 Million Bridge to Nowhere? It was cited by Senator John McCain of Arizona and others as a paradigmatic example of pork barrel spending in the 2005 Transportation Equity Act.

Originally Posted by Julie

ME double standard? Blues lists Hillary as accepting illegal monies as being corrupt, BUT then says my list of ones accepting money from Abramoff is "iffy?" Oh, please.

Please note that he gave you hits on some of that list, just not on all.

But I'm actually referring to your "Democrats are more scummy the Republicans by default so we expect less of them" line. It's reasoning like that that keeps the poor on welfare rolls and third-world nations suffering under dictators.

-dale

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Was that Thompson?

Congrats...Frank Thompson, or Thompy, 4th Cong District (trenton-somerset) it was so disappointing when he got snared...he was a fighter for the working guy...there's something about the New Jersey political culture back then...you were an honest pol if you were only a little crooked...

who is torch?

Originally Posted by Julie

Wait a minute now, you are insinuating Republicans doesn't like pork? You really want to open THAT can of worms? Does Republican Senator Ted Stevens of Alaska come to mind? The $315 Million Bridge to Nowhere? It was cited by Senator John McCain of Arizona and others as a paradigmatic example of pork barrel spending in the 2005 Transportation Equity Act.

Yeah, but the big daddy of pork is the erstwhile, fiddle-playing, constitutionalist, ex-Klansman and democrat from WVA, the Hon. Robert C. Byrd. "Fleas do it, why can't we do it..."

CAGW’s “Byrd Droppings” has chronicled 33 projects in West Virginia named after Sen. Byrd, including the Robert C. Byrd Green Bank Telescope, the Robert C. Byrd Highway, and the Robert C. Byrd Hardwood Technologies Center. Federal law prohibits the naming of federal structures after sitting members of Congress. Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) calls the practice a violation of campaign finance laws because it is “the equivalent of a government payment for a campaign billboard.”


Other West Virginia highlights from the Pig Book include: $16.8 million for the Institute for Software Research (2002); $3.6 million for the Appalachian Fruit Laboratory in Kearneysville (2005); $3.5 million for the National Tracing Center in Martinsburg (2002); $2.7 million for the Wood Education and Resource Center (2004); $1.7 million to equip West Liberty State College residence halls with Internet access (2003); $250,000 for the National Center for Cool and Coldwater Aquaculture (2000); $160,000 for poultry litter composting (2004); and $95,000 for the West Virginia State Museum for its Civil War regimental flag collection (2002).

Citizens Against Government Waste: Sen. Robert Byrd is Porker of the Month

Originally Posted by JAD_333

Yeah, but the big daddy of pork is the erstwhile, fiddle-playing, constitutionalist, ex-Klansman and democrat from WVA, the Hon. Robert C. Byrd. "Fleas do it, why can't we do it..."

Citizens Against Government Waste: Sen. Robert Byrd is Porker of the Month

No, it's the DOJ:

Snacks take big bite out of DOJ budget
Lobster dinners and cookies among top-dollar snacks at pricey conferences

WASHINGTON - It doesn't rival the Pentagon's $600 toilet seat, but the Justice Department can fork over a mean $4 meatball.

An internal Justice audit, released Friday, showed the department spent nearly $7 million to plan, host or send employees to ten conferences over the last two years. This included paying $4 per meatball at one lavish dinner and spreading an average of $25 worth of snacks around to each participant at a movie-themed party.

There was plenty, too, for those needing to satisfy sweet tooth.
More than $13,000 was spent on cookies and brownies for 1,542 people who attended a four-day "Weed and Seed" conference in August 2005, according to the audit by Justice Department Inspector General Glenn A. Fine. And a "networking" session replete with butterfly shrimp, coconut lobster skewers and Swedish meatballs at a Community Oriented Policing Services conference in July 2006 cost more than $60,000.

The report, which looked at the 10 priciest Justice Department conferences between October 2004 and September 2006, was ordered by the Senate Appropriations Committee. It also found that three-quarters of the employees who attended the conferences demanded daily reimbursement for the cost of meals while traveling - effectively double-dipping into government funds.

Auditors "found that using appropriated funds to pay for expensive meals and snacks at certain DOJ conferences, while allowable, appear to have been extravagant," the report concluded.

Responding, the Justice Department's management and administration office promised to prevent future extravagances of the sort that that Fine's auditors turned up.

Snacks take big bite out of DOJ budget - Politics - MSNBC.com