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Reply With Quotewhat possible effect can this have on Rumsfeld?
A U.S. human rights group has filed a criminal complaint in Germany against U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, accusing him and other senior U.S. officials of war crimes and torture at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison.
On Tuesday, the New York-based U.S. Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR), Berlin's Republican Lawyers' Association, and four Iraqi civilians, who have been subjected to various forms of torture and abuse by U.S. soldiers at Abu Ghraib prison, filed a criminal complaint with Germany's Federal Prosecutors.
CCR said it has chosen Germany because of its Code of Crimes Against International Law, introduced in 2002, which grants German courts universal jurisdiction in cases involving war crimes or crimes against humanity.
The CCR accused Rumsfeld, former CIA Director George Tenet, a senior defense official and seven U.S. military officers, including the former top U.S. commander in Iraq, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, of being responsible for all forms of torture and abuses that the Iraqi civilians were subjected to at Abu Ghraib prison outside Baghdad.
"We filed these cases here because there is simply no other place to go," CCR vice president Peter Weiss said in a statement.
"It is clear that the U.S. government is not willing to open an investigation into these allegations against these officials," he added.
The human rights group, moreover, said that this move was the last resort after the U.S. Congress failed to conduct a proper investigation into Abu Ghraib scandal.
"In a way I am here with a very heavy heart... I would have preferred that our own courts would have taken what happened seriously... but that is not the case in the United States at the moment," CCR President Michael Ratner said on Tuesday.
On the other hand, the U.S. embassy in Berlin refused to comment on the move. Mr. Rumsfeld, Sanchez and the other senior officers mentioned in the complaint also did not comment on the case.
The Abu Ghraib scandal broke out when photographs showing U.S. soldiers torturing, abusing, and sexually humiliating Iraqi detainees at Abu Ghraib prison first surfaced last April, sparking outrage all over the world.
Also, a top-level U.S. inquiry accused the military chain of command of being responsible for creating the environment that allowed the abuses to take place, however, only seven lower ranking military police and an intelligence soldier faced trial so far.
The group said that while U.S. soldiers were facing court martial for abusing and torturing Iraqi prisoners at Abu Ghraib jail, their superiors looked set to escape discipline.
"From Donald Rumsfeld on down, the political and military leaders in charge of Iraq policy must be investigated and held accountable," the CCR president said.
CCR urged German prosecutors to launch an immediate investigation, but has no firm expectation as to the outcome.
"I would also want to see this case possibly prompting the United States government to say we have to seriously investigate these crimes ourselves," Ratner told reporters.
"I don't know where this will lead but certainly if war crimes have been committed it should lead to significant jail sentences for people," he added.
CCR vice president Peter Weiss said that U.S. government’s failure to pursue those responsible and its justification of various forms of violations due to "extraordinary circumstances" had set a dangerous example.
"This authorization that has come from the highest levels... gives a green light for those kinds of violations throughout the world," he said.
what possible effect can this have on Rumsfeld?
None.
The comments in that are absurd. Responsibility went up the chain of command, to the point even a general was relieved of duty. They've diligently sought-out those responsible and have been bringing them to trial when appropriate.
This simply gives credence to the claims by the US that the international court would be used as a politcal tool to harass the US government, so therefor we should not submit to it.
Last edited by Horrido; 30 Nov 04, at 22:51.
The black flag is raised: Ban them all... Let the Admin sort them out.
I know I'm going to have the last word... I have powers of deletion and lock.
Dam' right. We Americans have this weird hang-up on not being subject to laws we had no say in enacting.Originally Posted by Horrido
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
And may it ever be so.
"The quickest way of ending a war is to lose it, and if one finds the prospect of a long war intolerable, it is natural to disbelieve in the possibility of victory."
- George Orwell
This is truely comical, why not go after people deserving of these types of charges....oh thats right its an American....err witch hunt.
They have to blame somebody. Americans seem to be the easiest target these days.
Isn't it great when they prove your point for you.
"Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
NEVER FORGET
Millions slaughtered in Rwanda and Sudan and not an American in sight I guess that's why these people don't investigate that.
A few Iraqis with panties on their heads sends them into a tizzie.
What a joke!
This reminded me of a speech from a Senator from my state. Take a look-
WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Zell Miller (D-GA) today delivered the
following statement on the floor of the United States Senate addressing
the situation at the Abu Ghraib prison.
"Mr. President, here we go again, here we go again. Rushing to give aid
and comfort to the enemy. Pushing and pulling and shoving and leaping
over one another to assign blame and point the finger at America the
Terrible. Lining up in long lines at the microphones to offer apologies
to those poor, pitiful Iraqi prisoners.
"Of course, I do not condone all the things that went on in that prison,
but I for one, Mr. President, refuse to join in this national Act of
Contrition over it.
"Those who are wringing their hands and shouting so loudly for "heads to
roll" over this seem to have conveniently overlooked the fact that
someone's head HAS rolled - that of another innocent American brutally
murdered by terrorists.
"Why is it? Why is it that there's more indignation over a photo of a
prisoner with underwear on his head than over the video of a young
American with no head at all? Why is it that some in this country still
don't get that we are at war? A war against terrorists who are plotting
to kill us every day. Terrorists who will murder Americans at any time
any place any chance they get.
"And yet here we are, America on its knees, in front of our enemy,
begging for their forgiveness over the mistreatment of prisoners.
Showing the enemy and the world once again how easily America can get
sidetracked and how easily America can turn against it self.
"Yes, some of our soldiers went too far with their interrogation tactics
and clearly were not properly trained to handle such duty. But the way
to deal with this is with swift and sure punishment, and immediate and
better training. There also needs to be more careful screening of who it
is we put in these kinds of sensitive situations.
"And no one wants to hear this, Mr. President and I'm reluctant to say
it.
But there should also be some serious questioning of having male and
female soldiers serving side by side in these kinds of military
missions.
"But instead, I worry that the HWA - the Hand-Wringers of America - will
add to their membership and continue to bash our country ad nauseam. And
in doing so, hand over more innocent Americans to the enemy on a silver
platter.
"So I stand with Senator Inhofe of Oklahoma, who stated that he's "more
outraged by the outrage" than by the treatment of those prisoners. More
outraged by the outrage. It's a good way of putting it. That's exactly
how this Senator from Georgia feels."
::god I love this guy::
"Our citizenship in the United States is our national character. Our citizenship in any particular state is only our local distinction. By the latter we are known at home, by the former to the world. Our great title is AMERICANS…" -- Thomas Paine
You got to love Zell. He turned on Chris Matthews one night and said "Do you want to duel?" Good thing they weren't in the same room.
"Above all, we must realize that no arsenal, or no weapon in the arsenals of the world, is so formidable as the will and moral courage of free men and women. It is a weapon our adversaries in today's world do not have."
"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'"
NEVER FORGET
Abu Ghraib, Caribbean style
*
The New York Times
Thursday, December 2, 2004
Ever since the Abu Ghraib scandal broke, the Bush administration has claimed that the abuses depicted in those horrible photos were an isolated problem that was immediately fixed. The White House has repeatedly proclaimed its respect for the Geneva Conventions, international law and American statutes governing the treatment of prisoners.
.But an article this week by Neil A. Lewis of The New York Times showed how hollow those assurances are. According to the International Committee of the Red Cross, prisoners at Guantánamo Bay, where the United States warehouses men captured in Afghanistan, have been subject to unremitting abuse that is sometimes "tantamount to torture." This continued well after the Abu Ghraib scandal came to light, and it may still be going on.
.The Red Cross said it first complained about Guantánamo in January 2003. It found mistreatment similar to that at Abu Ghraib, including beatings, prolonged isolation, sexual humiliation and prolonged "stress positions" for prisoners. But the Red Cross found a new, disturbing practice at Guantánamo: the use of medical personnel to help interrogators get information.
.The Red Cross reported the same level of abuse in the spring of 2003. By this June, it said, the regime was "more refined and repressive." The Red Cross did say that fearful Guantánamo prisoners complained less frequently in 2004 than in 2003 about female interrogators who exposed their breasts, kissed prisoners, touched them sexually and showed them pornography. But it's hard to see that as progress.
.The administration's response to the Red Cross report was unsurprising. The military brushed off the Red Cross's complaints when they were made, just as it did at Abu Ghraib. On Tuesday, Lawrence Di Rita, a spokesman for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, said the Red Cross had "their point of view," which was not shared by the Bush administration. The Red Cross's point of view, however, is reflected in the Geneva Conventions and in American law. The recent debate over prisoner abuse has not been brought to the courts, but the Supreme Court has ruled that President George W. Bush cannot suspend due process for prisoners of his choosing.
.The White House, the Pentagon and the Justice Department clearly have no intention of addressing the abuse. Indeed, Bush has nominated one of the architects of the administration's prisoner policy, the White House counsel Alberto Gonzales, to be attorney general. The general who set up the system at Guantánamo is now in charge of prisons in Iraq.
.
.Only Congress can hold the administration accountable and begin to repair the damage to American values and America's image caused by the mistreatment of prisoners. Republican and Democratic senators - like John McCain and Lindsey Graham, and Hillary Clinton and Carl Levin - have tried hard to investigate prisoner abuse. But Republican leaders have ignored the issue. Senator John Kerry never even raised it in the U.S. presidential campaign.
.Congress should demand that the Central Intelligence Agency stop stonewalling on the release of its inspector general's report on the role of intelligence officers at Abu Ghraib. During confirmation hearings, the Senate Judiciary Committee should press Gonzales about why he signed off on two legal opinions that justified torture and claimed that Bush could suspend the Geneva Conventions whenever he liked. They should ask what he intends to do about fixing the problem.
.Senator John Warner, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, should resume his valuable hearings on prisoner abuse. Ideally, he would finally ask the Senate leadership to create an investigative committee with subpoena powers to impose accountability on high-ranking generals and civilian officials.
Last edited by Parihaka; 02 Dec 04, at 09:21.
A report, partially leaked to the NYT, by someone in the IRC with an axe to grind against the US, and we all know where the NYT stands. In other wars any person found out of uniform on the battlefield, or not identified as a legal combatant was subject to summary execution.
I'd love to have some attractive cutie exposing her breasts to me as punishment.
I liked this part.Bush could suspend the Geneva Conventions whenever he liked.
And a General saying this?
Notice no French there either? The Americans would need a damn good excuse to go to the Sudan and weaken their already stretched military.
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