Apologies For Slavery

**dalem** · 11 Mar 07, 23:55

Tanz, how is an apology going to change anyone's mind about anything? Who is sorry and what are they sorry about, exactly?

-dale

**jame$thegreat** · 12 Mar 07, 01:04

Originally Posted by dalem

Tanz, how is an apology going to change anyone's mind about anything? Who is sorry and what are they sorry about, exactly?

-dale

144 years is enough time to begin getting their act together, which they still have yet to. Many blacks, as horrible as it may sound, still have a slave mentality; they dont pay taxes, live off food stamps and charity and resort to stealing to make up for their food. Now I understand this is not all blacks and I dont hate black people, in fact many of my close friends are black, but its true. They act as if "the master" is going to take care of their living costs. Thats just not the was America works and they need to get with the program. As you said Tanz there have been at least 3 generations that have passed by now, in that time there should have been serious change.

I mentioned the Irish as an example, look at them they are well above their enslavement and famine that they have had to live through. Many immigrated and many stuck it out either way the Irish have moved past this hinderance.

still I have yet to see what an apology will solve? Feeling better about somethign will not help the situation at all.

**THL** · 12 Mar 07, 01:28

Originally Posted by tanz

The consequences for slavery in the US are everywhere. The black culture is extreamly askew and disfunctional and that is a direct effect of slavery. To pretend otherwise is political correctness at it's worst. Black culture is not doing just fine.

No culture got to where they are currently overnight and no culture got to where they are now by sitting back and allowing the past to form their future. If any particular group of people want to better themselves, it is going to take work. That group of people needs to decide they want it and then go get it.

No one should have to apologize for laziness.

Originally Posted by tanz

The first step is an apology.

If i Sat around waiting for an apology from every one who ever scorned me before I went on with my life, I'd be waiting forever.

**Timeseer** · 12 Mar 07, 03:45

Originally Posted by Kassad

It's political leverage, and nothing more. I don't care if States apologize. The elected officials are not being sincere, they're just gathering up votes.

So in your own words, how and in what ways should someone apologize for slavery to better end the struggle between white and black people?

In my own opinion, white people (some of them) should apologize for the racism that came after the end of slavery and not slavery it self. Moreover, they should appologize for the use of racism towards anyone that they have use such racist slurs and other inappropriate acts. This might even include minorities to apologize for their own use of racism.

Nevertheless, we cannot apologize for the actions that were done by another person and we shouldn't apologize on the behalf of a deceased ancestor who cannot speak for him or herself. If we really want someone to apologize for slavery, then we should just revive the dead (through use of cloning) and let them apologize. Otherwise, I find it to be rather senseless and childish.

**tanz** · 12 Mar 07, 04:22

I agree with everything you guys are saying but you are looking at it on a personal level. No person should have to apologize because as I stated none of us are responsible for the injustice. If we look at it on a broader social level the U.S. as an institution is responsible for slavery and an acknowlegement of this and apology is a step in the right direction. There are 2 ways of looking at the present situation. First that Blacks are inferior and their fractured culture is just an example of this inability to "get it together". Second the social problems exibited by the black culture are a direct result of extreme injustice that will take many more generations to heal. I personally believe the latter. You know I didn't cause the problem and neither did you but the problem exists. I believe the first step is the acknowledgement that the U.S. did this and that it was wrong. As far as the Irish they were subjugated by the Norman invasion of 1169 and considered a Brittish colony in 1541 and while it's people were considered serfs they were never enslaved. Not to say atrocities were not committed but the Irish were not taken as slaves.

**Parihaka** · 12 Mar 07, 04:37

Originally Posted by tanz

Not to say atrocities were not committed but the Irish were not taken as slaves.

Ah, the secret histories.
Educate yourself my dear boy.

Caomhánach - Article - Irish slaves in the Caribbean

http://www.ewtn.com/library/HUMANITY/SLAVES.TXT

AN PHOBLACHT/REPUBLICAN NEWS

There is after all a reason why Britain, only half as big again as Ireland has 60 million people, and Ireland only 4 million.

**tanz** · 12 Mar 07, 04:52

Wow! I have never read anything like that about Irish slavery. I stand corrected. I wonder though is there a group of surviving decendants of Irish slaves that have not assimilated into the white culture? Maybe in Barbados? I wonder if they suffer the same social problems?

**ArmchairGeneral** · 12 Mar 07, 05:02

My roommate grew up as a missionary kid in West Africa, mainly Ghana. The other day, he was telling me about the difficulties churches face there. Churches from different tribes often avoid associating with each other because of old hatreds. He said that the tribes who were victims of the slave trade still harbor great hatred and resentment- not for white people, mind you, but the neighboring tribes who practiced slave trading.

As for me, I'll be glad to apologize,and even pay reparations: to myself, that is, for my ancestors who held my ancestors in slavery.

**Parihaka** · 12 Mar 07, 05:13

Originally Posted by tanz

Wow! I have never read anything like that about Irish slavery. I stand corrected. I wonder though is there a group of surviving decendants of Irish slaves that have not assimilated into the white culture? Maybe in Barbados? I wonder if they suffer the same social problems?

Look around you. Do you see Irish or for that matter Scots demanding apologies or reparations? Is England or Holland or Portugal or Spain demanding reparations from the Ottomans for the vaste numbers or European slaves they took?

**Wraith601** · 12 Mar 07, 06:32

If governments wat to apologise then they can but I see no need to apoplogize for never owning a slave to people who never were a slave. In fact I'll pose this question are African-Americans better off in whatever conditions they face here in America or would they have preferred to actually be born in Africa where slavery and genocide are a daily occurence?

**tanz** · 12 Mar 07, 08:17

Originally Posted by Parihaka

Look around you. Do you see Irish or for that matter Scots demanding apologies or reparations? Is England or Holland or Portugal or Spain demanding reparations from the Ottomans for the vaste numbers or European slaves they took?

Not a fair question because the Irish and Scotts have assimilated into the dominant culture due to the fact that they are white. Some blacks have also but many have not been able to yet. The ottomans took the slaves away from those countries that would be like asking if the nations of Africa are demanding reperations from the U.S.

**Parihaka** · 12 Mar 07, 10:13

Originally Posted by tanz

Not a fair question because the Irish and Scotts have assimilated into the dominant culture due to the fact that they are white. Some blacks have also but many have not been able to yet. The ottomans took the slaves away from those countries that would be like asking if the nations of Africa are demanding reperations from the U.S.

Yeah good point, I guess you could say the slavery issue has morphed into a race issue, with slavery as the pretext.

**THL** · 12 Mar 07, 10:36

Originally Posted by tanz

I believe the first step is the acknowledgement that the U.S. did this and that it was wrong.

So lets say all the states send some formal apology and then nothing gets better for them. Then what? Are they going to have to apologize to the states?

**soutie** · 12 Mar 07, 12:30

we must remember that it was not only america and britain who was involved in the slave trade,zanzibar used to be the biggest slave trading market in africa and who ran it the arabs,i do not see them lining up to apologize for the slave trade when they were the biggest culprits of all to them the afican was the kuffar ,heathen, to me most nations rich ones where involved in it,the other question is if there is an apology will that lead to littigation and court cases asking for buillions of dollars on compensation.

**tanz** · 12 Mar 07, 12:52

Originally Posted by THL

So lets say all the states send some formal apology and then nothing gets better for them. Then what? Are they going to have to apologize to the states?

LOL some might say they already owe us one but that's just a cheap shot. I hold out hope that if we take the steps necessary to expediate the healing process that racism will deminish and black people will asimilate easier phasing out the negative aspects of their culture over a few generations. Sadly probably not in our lifetime but that's only conjecture.

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