Thread: Why our enemies -- and friends -- hate us

Originally Posted by crooks

Pray tell Gunnut, what's the plan ?

I'd like to know too.

We are lucky if we can manage 8 years of relative consistency. After that, the power in Washington changes hands and everything reverses again.

I don't know why it is but nevertheless I have a name for it: The MacDonalds Phenomenon.
When examined in an unbiased way, MacDonalds has become an exemplary company. They source local produce, and only buy-in produce from outside the area when none is available locally, despite the cost.
They use the most recycled material of any international corporation anywhere and structure their waste material so it can be recycled again.
As they like to say, the only thing that goes into their beef patties, is beef.
They encourage and train their junior staff for management, and pay above
the minimum wage, here at least.
They are child friendly, and do not advertise during children's television hours.

Yet MacDonalds is depised by a large percentage of the population, that same population happy to pump their children full of sugar products, takeaways that aren't really fit for human consumption, and certainly in New Zealand, are the most wasteful as regards buying unnecessary unrecyclable products.

America is in the same boat. When you examine the track records of other nations, Britain has indulged in more wars than the States have, France sells weapons of all varieties to whoever wants them and happily props up tyrants when there's a buck to be made, Russia and China, well lets not even go there....

When aid is given America is first in line, but, as in the case of Indonesia during the tsunami, the US had to give assurances that their military had to withdraw within a matter of days irrespective of whether the helicopters and supplies were still needed or not.
In Iraq, France and Russia made fortunes from Saddam, but the photo of Rumsfeld shaking Saddams hand is the one that is shown.


I myself had the same sort of views before I came here, and in the end I think I put it down to the formative time in my upbringing when America through the Apollo missions shone across the world like a beacon: afterward I expected everything that America did to be of the same extraordinary standard and when she failed to maintain that standard, as all nations do, I held it against her.
In other words, people expect America to be perfect, and despise her when she's not.

Originally Posted by gunnut

Very well said, sir.



Unless you're a Mexican. Then you can just hop a fence and come over for whatever you want. Bank of America now provides credit cards for illegals. Most of our banks allow people to open accounts using Mexican ID.



And that's a bad thing?



That's not cruel. That's rewarding the hard working people while not punishing the lazy. The lazy punish themselves. There are safety nets besides government handouts. We are the most charitable people on this earth. We give to and help the needy. But we want to do that on our terms. Not on some government bureaucrat's terms.



Yes and no. Individually we don't have plans beyond the next week or the next year. As a nation, you bet we plan ahead. Far ahead. It may not be obvious. But we do have a plan.

Of course that working hard and give your best is good. Actually it is the best thing that one man can do. The thing that is a problem is that you can't be the best all the time. Sometimes it just isn't your day. While I was in San Francisco, I worked all 7 days in week, sometimes I had one day off in a month.

I don't know, probably things would look much better if my wife and me were able to find a way to overcome problems that we had. But my overall experience with the US is positive and I'm grateful to have it.

I just love you guys ............your cute ....and you can watch my 6 anytime

Originally Posted by omon

i have seen american turists in many coutries, the way they behave (most of them), can make anyone hate america, they act like everyone around them are idiots, american wars, play much smaller role, in america being hated, compare how americans act abroad,

It all comes down to ignorance really, on both sides not just the Americans.
I've seen some preaty snotty Canadian tourists too, mostly from Montreal oddly enough, a very multi cultural city.

Versus, Parihaka very good posts.

We're hated, in part, because it's safe to hate us.

-dale

Because they've got OUR Stanley Cup! ***rumble***

Originally Posted by dalem

We're hated, in part, because it's safe to hate us.

-dale

Damn! I write paragraphs and you sum it up better in one line.

Originally Posted by highsea

I'd like to know too.

We are lucky if we can manage 8 years of relative consistency. After that, the power in Washington changes hands and everything reverses again.

Not entirely true highsea and you know it, the money is controlled by the Congress where the average terms are measured in decades. People confuse the President who is our leader, with being our ruler. However since money is the source of power in America ultimate power rests in the hands of the congres.

The real power brokers and planners in America are the committee chairs.

^^^ To some extent you are right zraver, but still there is stark contrast between foreign policies carried out by democrat presidents and republican ones. This is what gives the perception to other countries of the US wishy-washy foreign policy.

I agree that domestically you can't tell one congresscritter from another. But look at the new crop of committee chairs from the mid-term elections- can you say foreign policy will not be affected?

Dalem's comment hit the nail on the head.

I have a theory for this phenomenon .... if i may

Originally Posted by Parihaka

I don't know why it is but nevertheless I have a name for it: The MacDonalds Phenomenon.
When examined in an unbiased way, MacDonalds has become an exemplary company. They source local produce, and only buy-in produce from outside the area when none is available locally, despite the cost.
They use the most recycled material of any international corporation anywhere and structure their waste material so it can be recycled again.
As they like to say, the only thing that goes into their beef patties, is beef.
They encourage and train their junior staff for management, and pay above
the minimum wage, here at least.
They are child friendly, and do not advertise during children's television hours.

Of all the powers and superpowers that came and went, America will be the most critized for the simple fact it (America) was soft. Even in real life rarely do we give credit to a simple act of kindess from people around us, yet we are quick to blame them if it is missing. American has unfortunatly been too kind to the world - in respective to the past Great Powers. Where Stalin would shove his demands down a satellite nation's throat, America will present its intrest inform of hamburger with a good tasty sauce. However, IMHO its kindess and its role as the beacon of freedom and all those cute words, has greatly damaged its perceived image. So not because it is wrong to be kind and aiding, but rather because that America's quest to be perceived perfect in the eyes of all, has led it be shown that it is paradise and the perfect to the point of arrogance and hypocracy. Therefore, when average people see these holes and cracks within the perfect America, they naturally critize when comparing Actual America to the image that America has built for itself (Ideal America). IMHO, for many people arrogance and hypocracy of a perceived-perfect image is more untolerable as a being bombed by B-52. I happen to be one of those.

Originally Posted by Parihaka

America is in the same boat. When you examine the track records of other nations, Britain has indulged in more wars than the States have, France sells weapons of all varieties to whoever wants them and happily props up tyrants when there's a buck to be made, Russia and China, well lets not even go there....

When aid is given America is first in line, but, as in the case of Indonesia during the tsunami, the US had to give assurances that their military had to withdraw within a matter of days irrespective of whether the helicopters and supplies were still needed or not.
In Iraq, France and Russia made fortunes from Saddam, but the photo of Rumsfeld shaking Saddams hand is the one that is shown.

Again, my point had America acted more aggressive and thrown out less freedom mumbo jumbo, they would have been critized to the level of France and UK. But not hated for their hypocracy and arrogance that they know what nation needs freedom. I was watching PBS Frontline show and there a journalist covering the war made the following comment which I made a mental note: "An Iraqi army officer loves freedom as much as we do for himself and his familly, but they hate the way it is being presented from the position of superiority."

Originally Posted by Parihaka

I myself had the same sort of views before I came here, and in the end I think I put it down to the formative time in my upbringing when America through the Apollo missions shone across the world like a beacon: afterward I expected everything that America did to be of the same extraordinary standard and when she failed to maintain that standard, as all nations do, I held it against her.
In other words, people expect America to be perfect, and despise her when she's not.

Exactly, however what you are missing is that people expect America to be perfect, because America had presented itself as the saviour and perfector of the Free World (whatever that means). Unfortunatly, for the future Great Powers coming into age within the next 100 years, they will compared to America and then people will look back and remember America as the benevolent Imperial power. It is all about points of references.

Originally Posted by smilingassassin

It all comes down to ignorance really, on both sides not just the Americans.
I've seen some preaty snotty Canadian tourists too, mostly from Montreal oddly enough, a very multi cultural city.

what ??? .......... montreal is Great,

the only snotty Canadian tourists are from Alberta

Originally Posted by xerxes

Again, my point had America acted more aggressive and thrown out less freedom mumbo jumbo, they would have been critized to the level of France and UK.

You mistake hypocrisy and failure.
America has proved time and again that it wishes greater freedom for nations around the world and has worked to achieve those freedoms. Sometimes it has failed and sometimes it has acted against it's own beliefs, but this is not hypocrisy, it is simply being less than perfect.
As I have already pointed out, true hypocrisy lies in the many other nations who claim status as standardbearers for civilisation, but neither their populace nor their government act or even believe it.
In my experience and as you have stated, American people in general do, and here is your mistake: that they in general hold themselves to a higher standard than others makes those others despise them more because of their own true hypocrisy.

Originally Posted by xerxes

Exactly, however what you are missing is that people expect America to be perfect, because America had presented itself as the saviour and perfector of the Free World (whatever that means). Unfortunatly, for the future Great Powers coming into age within the next 100 years, they will compared to America and then people will look back and remember America as the benevolent Imperial power. It is all about points of references.

Certainly in the case of my own country America has in my parents and grandparents lives proved our saviour.
At a time when most of our fighting men were killing Germans and capturing Italians in the deserts of North Africa, our countries were at the mercy of the Japanese.
Even if we'd brought our men home, while they would have given better than they got, in all probability sheer numbers would have overwhelmed us.

America held the line.

At the greatest threat my country has ever faced, America held the line.

Alonside the tombstones of our men and women whose blood was spilled as a salve for the European disease, stand monuments to the American soldiers who fell in our defence.
Whatever our differences, we don't forget.