Thread: Why our enemies -- and friends -- hate us

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Sorry, I have to earn some munny for my company in between wasting their time with the WAB.

I've heard the 'empire' meme before, and I always answer the same way: Dam' funny 'empire' we've built, what with not keeping the territories we take, what with not imposing our will whenever we wish, what with not being ruled by a dynastic succession, and what with the sheer benevolence practiced as a matter of policy.

The United states of America must be the least 'imperial' of any historical hegemon. We, right now, today, enjoy the greatest margin of superiority that any political entity has ever enjoyed, and it is SO vastly superior to any conceivable combination of opposition as to be virtually invulnerable. Now, that may scare some. But ANY rational judge of actual conduct - not merely the potential for domination - has GOT to agree that America, for all her faults, is the best thing that's ever happened to the world. We are the home of liberty, hope, and of the ways and means of doing Right in the world. During WWII, we were the Arsenal of Democracy, and the entire world should thank whatever god they bow down to that this was so. We have long been the supermarket to the world, and if any starve today, it is in direct contravention to American principles of charity and altruism. We are exactly what Abraham Lincoln saw so clearly, and why he fought so hard to save the United States: he knew we were the last best hope of earth. We ARE exceptional; we ARE a shining city upon a hill.

We make mistakes, and sometimes, in our eagerness to do Right, we stumble and I understand why there are others that don't see the Unites States of America like I do. But I ask you: who ELSE would those people rather have at the pinnacle of of economic, cultural, geopolitical and military power? Who ELSE would be a protector, and not a threat? Who ELSE out there among the nations of the world has earned through the sacrifice of blood and treasure, and through an imperfect but nevertheless noble example the leadership of a world that needs us now more than ever?

We're no 'empire'. We're no dictator; we're a LEADER.

ROTFLMAO!

I loved that speech, but THAT'S IT!!!

The "WE ARE BETTER, AND YOU KNOW IT" disease that all Americans have in the back of the mind.

No one in the World outside the US views you as a leader, and very few bow down to you .

Originally Posted by crooks

I see America clearly and like your people (very courtious) and culture .

HOWEVER.

Americans are always so eager to bring up past conflicts (not you, I'm just saying as a whole) and claim that without them, we'd all be speaking German.
You have an occasional arrogant streak that no one else in the world has.

God does not "Bless America" over anyone else, and nor should you (again, not personal, but as a people) expect him to .

I neither hate nor love America, and wouldn't choose to live there willingly, but that's a cultural difference I suppose.

So what do you mean to me?

Nothing more than anyone else, and I am being honest, for the record .

Fair enough, and I'm not talking about how we saved you from this threat or that one. We are, however, the example the world looks to, and our model is successful and the decent parts of the world that aren't rotting away from internal contradictions have - whether they'll admit it or not - used that as a template for growing prosperous and safe societies.

One of the things the world as a whole should acknowledge is that the American Revolution was the greatest dividing line in history: human liberty was given its natural extension from all that came before to all that came after. It was radical; it changed the comman man's relationship to his world. He was FREE, and endowed with certain inalienable rights, not because some lord said so. But just BECAUSE. He had worth now; he had inherant value, just by virtue of being alive.

I don't claim any blessing by any god. It was a humanistic idea that made us great. As long as we remain faithful to that idea, we'll always be great, in exact proportion to that fidelity.

Originally Posted by crooks

You have an occasional arrogant streak that no one else in the world has.
.

See this is one of the things I don't understand. I'm not directing this straight at you Crooks but in general at your comment. I have been condescended to by arrogant people about my country and race my entire life, and it isn't by Americans.
I go to America and they're fascinated by my country and invariably (once they've established I'm someone of character) would give me the shirt off their back.
I go to Europe and whether English or French or yes Irish, I am universally sneered at. "What a horrible accent". "Oh, another sheep****er, ha ha" "Stop being so loud" "that tiny little country on the bottom of the world" "convicts" etc etc.
Now there are many fine people I've met in Europe, but if you want to meet arrogance and be sneered at and despised for being "not from round these parts", Europes the place.

I think partly it's because Americans are upfront, they say what they mean and mean what they say. So do we, so do the Australians. We like ourselves and we're proud of who and what we are. Certainly as far as I can see it's a trait the British don't allow themselves, and no-one else is allowed it either.

Originally Posted by Bluesman

Fair enough, and I'm not talking about how we saved you from this threat or that one. We are, however, the example the world looks to, and our model is successful and the decent parts of the world that aren't rotting away from internal contradictions have - whether they'll admit it or not - used that as a template for growing prosperous and safe societies.

One of the things the world as a whole should acknowledge is that the American Revolution was the greatest dividing line in history: human liberty was given its natural extension from all that came before to all that came after. It was radical; it changed the comman man's relationship to his world. He was FREE, and endowed with certain inalienable rights, not because some lord said so. But just BECAUSE. He had worth now; he had inherant value, just by virtue of being alive.

I don't claim any blessing by any god. It was a humanistic idea that made us great. As long as we remain faithful to that idea, we'll always be great, in exact proportion to that fidelity.

Well we (Ireland) were inspired to "Chuck the Pom King out" by your (and the French's) Rebellion, and I'm grateful for that.

But guys, PLEASE GET RID OF THE DEATH PENALTY AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY ARMS WITHOUT ANY REAL REGULATION.

One could argue America is LESS civilised than most of the EU, as Flag-burning is an offence and you have the Patriot act.

Freedom is an interesting contradiction in the land of the free .

Originally Posted by Parihaka

See this is one of the things I don't understand. I'm not directing this straight at you Crooks but in general at your comment. I have been condescended to by arrogant people about my country and race my entire life, and it isn't by Americans.
I go to America and they're fascinated by my country and invariably (once they've established I'm someone of character) would give me the shirt off their back.
I go to Europe and whether English or French or yes Irish, I am universally sneered at. "What a horrible accent". "Oh, another sheep****er, ha ha" "Stop being so loud" "that tiny little country on the bottom of the world" "convicts" etc etc.
Now there are many fine people I've met in Europe, but if you want to meet arrogance and be sneered at and despised for being "not from round these parts", Europes the place.

I think partly it's because Americans are upfront, they say what they mean and mean what they say. So do we, so do the Australians. We like ourselves and we're proud of who and what we are. Certainly as far as I can see it's a trait the British don't allow themselves, and no-one else is allowed it either.

We Irish do.

We love ourselves, and I'm not saying anything is wrong with that, but we try to keep it toned down........and for the record, that's terrible what happened and please know that I would personally never say anything like that to a visitor to my country .

But yes, Ireland does tend to alienate others.
Not out of malice or Arrogance, but because it's quite unusual to see a Kiwi or Aussie for us, versus the US.

Originally Posted by crooks

ROTFLMAO!

I loved that speech, but THAT'S IT!!!

The "WE ARE BETTER, AND YOU KNOW IT" disease that all Americans have.

No one in the World outside the US views you as a leader, and very few bow down to you .

Nobody asked or told you to bow down, dumbass. If we ever did, though, you'd dam' well do it or you'd die. Not expecting a 'thank you', but an acknowledgement of our benvolence would be nice, all the same.

So...you tell me: WHO is absolutely required to get ANY single thing of any importance done in this world, hm? If there's a disaster, we've got to lead the relief. If there's a brutal madman out there oppressing his people (and there always is), don't call anybody else, because he'll humiliate 'em and keep on killin'. If there is a body that needs central direction and/or money and/or manpower and/or mangeriall know-how, get the Americans aboard or it'll be the biggest cocked-up mess since the League of Nations.

That's LEADERSHIP, and you'll know it when it ain't there, because things will be a general turmoil. This planet needs us more than it needs any other entity that won't be there when called upon.

You're another blind, resentful under-wit of limited perception that simply doesn't want to believe what even a cursory examination of 20th Century records will tell you: if the US isn't out front, the greatest attempts of Good Works will probably fail, or will fall short of the goal.

Originally Posted by Ray

Is this applicable even when people are saying they don't hate America?


Are you a masochist?

Hm? Of course it can't apply in that case. Someone a few forums ago started a "Why is America Hated" thread. I posted the above then, I still believe it now. Doesn't meant that everyone hates us, and the fact that not everyone hates us doesn't change the reality of our power or our motive.

-dale

[QUOTE=T_igger_cs_30;350617]

Originally Posted by ExNavyAmerican

I respect you are a staunch christian conservative, however this comment was a wind up right ........ in this day and age you cannot honestly belief that.

I myself believe it. Take the world's sea trade routes for instance. The only reason, and I mean the ONLY reason, they remain as open and as free of strife as they currently do is the existance of the U.S. Navy. If that were to disappear every nation with 100 yds of coastline and an old rusty destroyer would be charging for passage and taking hostages every week.

-dale

Originally Posted by Bluesman

1) Nobody asked or told you to bow down, dumbass. If we ever did, though, you'd dam' well do it or you'd die. Not expecting a 'thank you', but an acknowledgement of our benvolence would be nice, all the same.

2) So...you tell me: WHO is absolutely required to get ANY single thing of any importance done in this world, hm? If there's a disaster, we've got to lead the relief. If there's a brutal madman out there oppressing his people (and there always is), don't call anybody else, because he'll humiliate 'em and keep on killin'. If there is a body that needs central direction and/or money and/or manpower and/or mangeriall know-how, get the Americans aboard or it'll be the biggest cocked-up mess since the League of Nations.

That's LEADERSHIP, and you'll know it when it ain't there, because things will be a general turmoil. This planet needs us more than it needs any other entity that won't be there when called upon.

3) You're another blind, resentful under-wit of limited perception that simply doesn't want to believe what even a cursory examination of 20th Century records will tell you: if the US isn't out front, the greatest attempts of Good Works will probably fail, or will fall short of the goal.

I don't aprecciate verbal insult because I disagree with you about your country's role in the world, for a start.

Now, I've already said, I like Americans .
Your Kind, Generally Courtious, and have a lovely culture that's very innovative.

1) Nope, I would not bow to you and I would not die.
Your Benevolence?
What Benevolence?

Arrogance, maybe .

2) America starts as many wars as it's drawn in to these days, and whilst I'm "Grateful" you hounded a man and his country to oblivion for no real reason other than a dumbass President's hopes to be remembered, you must understand the cyncism .

3) Not Blind, 20-20 vision thanks.......not Resentful, your country never gave anything to mine, though my people helped you build yours....and I don't consider the US world-trip a "good thing"......Give the French a chance, they might do better by using reasoning instead of Patronization.

Originally Posted by crooks

ROTFLMAO!

I loved that speech, but THAT'S IT!!!

The "WE ARE BETTER, AND YOU KNOW IT" disease that all Americans have in the back of the mind.

No one in the World outside the US views you as a leader, and very few bow down to you .

So, as a nation, who has more power and uses it for better ends than does America? Who IS better in your mind?

-dale

Originally Posted by dalem

So, as a nation, who has more power and uses it for better ends than does America? Who IS better in your mind?

-dale

France .

I never said anyone was better,I just think that we need one of two things (ideally both):

1) A multi-polar world

2) A less eager to march to War US.

I do not wish "Death to America", just a world where She's not our only option .

Originally Posted by crooks

Well we (Ireland) were inspired to "Chuck the Pom King out" by your (and the French's) Rebellion, and I'm grateful for that.

But guys, PLEASE GET RID OF THE DEATH PENALTY AND THE RIGHT TO CARRY ARMS WITHOUT ANY REAL REGULATION.

One could argue America is LESS civilised than most of the EU, as Flag-burning is an offence and you have the Patriot act.

Freedom is an interesting contradiction in the land of the free .

1) What we do with our murderers is none of your business.

2) What we do with our firearms is none of your business.

3) Flag burning is not an "offence" although some think it should be.

4) The Patriot act, as a modification of existing law, restricts individual liberty far less than accepted laws throughout Europe, where political parties and symbols are routinely banned, telecommunications and press organizations are routinely government-owned and controlled, etc.

Lessons in liberty from a Euro/Eire? I think not.

-dale

Originally Posted by crooks

France .

I never said anyone was better,I just think that we need one of two things (ideally both):

1) A multi-polar world

2) A less eager to march to War US.

I do not wish "Death to America", just a world where She's not our only option .

So if no nation is better than us, we are the best, yes?

Why multi-polar? Goes back to your simple fear of power, yes?

The U.S. is not eager to march to war, the U.S. (so far) is just not eager to drop to her knees in front of her enemies.

-dale

Originally Posted by crooks

I don't aprecciate verbal insult because I disagree with you about your country's role in the world, for a start.

Now, I've already said, I like Americans .
Your Kind, Generally Courtious, and have a lovely culture that's very innovative.

1) Nope, I would not bow to you and I would not die.
Your Benevolence?
What Benevolence?

Arrogance, maybe .

2) America starts as many wars as it's drawn in to these days, and whilst I'm "Grateful" you hounded a man and his country to oblivion for no real reason other than a dumbass President's hopes to be remembered, you must understand the cyncism .

3) Not Blind, 20-20 vision thanks.......not Resentful, your country never gave anything to mine, though my people helped you build yours....and I don't consider the US world-trip a "good thing"......Give the French a chance, they might do better by using reasoning instead of Patronization.

Lick my love-pump, jack. I got on you because you think it's somehow an American proclivity to want others to bow before us, and THAT, you offal, is an INSULT to my country, and I'm not inclined to put up with it from you, and you'll get more of the same if you ever do it again. If that's what we wanted, that's what you'd DO, because there's nobody that could stop it from happening. And that's my point, if you'd care to notice: we don't DO that sort of thing, and while I don't expect your gratitude, maybe an acknowledgement of how goddam' lucky you are that we are the way we are would be in order here.

Dumbass.