Thread: Should Blue States Join Canada?

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

"All the blue states would to secede at once not one at a time."

There is no legal right to secession, they'd have to do so under force of arms, and that would be impossible(even assuming that the NGuardsmen from each state supported the notion of seccession to begin with- which is highly unlikely given the military's penchant for being 'red').

For better or worse, we're stuck with you.

Of course, i am open to comprimise. I'd support giving the Blues California, and letting it seceed. California has been infecting the rest of the US with it's hyper-liberal ideals for far too long anyway by my way of thinking. The reality though, makes that impossible.

Hey, Hey !! I'm for that so we wouldn't have to hear their whining about financing us "red states" any longer. Do you think we could survive without California?

Nothing personal Gio.

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

Of course, i am open to comprimise. I'd support giving the Blues California, and letting it seceed. California has been infecting the rest of the US with it's hyper-liberal ideals for far too long anyway by my way of thinking. The reality though, makes that impossible.

just the coast line, the rest of the state is red. as well as the southern end with orange county.

Originally Posted by NeoLiberal

I think you are totally wrong on that one. Wealth of America is created in the cities/urban areas. You can only generate so much wealth by growing corn, for the rest you will have to head to cities.

get over yourself, industry makes wealth, there are steelmills, paper mills, tons of industry dotted across the red landscape. of those so-called blue states. not to mention allot of those blue states have red congress and house reps. your in a dream world.

All the blue states would to secede at once not one at a time.

Very little of the Blue states as far as Territory goes is in fact blue. California is overwhelmingly Republican outside of a few very populated counties. The vast majority of the countries land mass is in fact red.

There is not way you could possibley sucede from the Union, none what so ever unless they are willing to through force of arms.

Here's the dirt on secession. Thanx to SEER Stuart over at the HPACA board for this explanation:

"It's in the "Northwest Ordinance" of 1787. This is much more than it appears to be because it lays down the terms under which new states join the Union. The key part is :-

"That the following articles shall be considered as articles of compact between the original States and the people and States in the said territory and forever remain unalterable, unless by common consent"

From this, it could be argued that, while the 37 states that joined the Union subsequent to its foundation, the 13 original states do. However, it is subsequently stated that

"such State shall be admitted, by its delegates, into the Congress of the United States, on an equal footing with the original States in all respects whatever". In other words, since their right to secede is explicitly prohibited by the Ordinance and they are on an equal footing with the original 13 states, the original 13 also have no right to secede.

Just to put a nail in it. A little further down we have:-

"The said territory, and the States which may be formed therein, shall forever remain a part of this Confederacy of the United States of America, subject to the Articles of Confederation, and to such alterations therein as shall be constitutionally made; and to all the acts and ordinances of the United States in Congress assembled, conformable thereto."

That pretty well closes the lid and hammers it down.

Theodore Roosevelt describes the Ordinance of 1787 as one of the three great documents of American history, comparable with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

The situation isn't quite that secession is illegal, it is, provided both parties agree that those who wish to leave the Union may do so. If (for example) Massachussetts suddenly decided it wanted to leave the Union and the other 49 states were agreeable, Mass could leave - once an agreement over the outstanding issues was negotiated.

What is illegal would be Mass just suddenly walking away from the Union and, by doing so, by dictating its own terms and solutions to the other 49 states. It's that type of unilateral secession that is illegal and a moment's thought shows why it must be. There are a complex web of agreements that link the states and they have to be severed in an equitable manner. Unilateral secession would represent one state imposing its views on all the others."

---------------------------------------------------------------

So seccession for one state is ONLY legal if the other 49 states and the federal gov't can reach a mutual legal agreement.

IOW, it would be impossible for a state to seceed the union.

Originally Posted by M21Sniper

PS.......even if there were a legal right, there would be a fight over it........do not delude yourself into thinking otherwise. Also, Wash D.C. does not have a National Guard, but is heavily guarded by federal troops. The capital would be secure in the event of a civil war. Also, much of the US economy is driven by the suburbs, who've seen greatly expanded commerce because of extremely high city taxes(wage, property, business, and otherwise). A lot more of the US economy is based outside the city's than was once the case.......and even still, not all the inhabitants of cities are Dems, nor even close.

That is just a matter of opinion, according to you there would be a fight and I say there won't be. We are all civilized people, we would be able to secede peacefully without fighting it out.

" We are all civilized people, we would be able to secede peacefully without fighting it out."

Even a percursory study of human history shows you to be quite incorrect.

Originally Posted by donnie

get over yourself, industry makes wealth, there are steelmills, paper mills, tons of industry dotted across the red landscape. of those so-called blue states. not to mention allot of those blue states have red congress and house reps. your in a dream world.

Agriculture/fisheries/mining and Industry share about 25% of the GDP the rest 75% comes from service sector. In other words out of the 11 trillion, 8.25 trillion comes from service sector and only 2.5 trllion from Industries. Besides, there is plenty of Industries in the cities too.
That should give you a fairly good idea about the contribution the cities make towards the GDP of the country.

There are a hell of a lot of service sector jobs in the suburban and rural areas too.

Also, not all cities even vote dem, and of those that do not all of the population is Blue anyway.

Regardless, seccession isn't happening, so this discussion is just an exercise in silliness.