Catholic Bishops Damn Kerry, Give Free-Pass To Pedophiles

**Prodigal Son** · 23 Oct 04,, 20:51

the Church is an institution of God that does good. Please don't refer to it as "organized crime."

If an organization, any organization, moves people about to avoid prosecution, intimidates witnesses to crimes, pays hush money, supports a conspiracy of silence, and generally conspires to prevent criminals from facing justice would you say that organization acts LIKE organized crime?

Remember, the Church is an institutions both of God and Man. It has a duty to God, but a responsiblity to Man, and is thus beholden to and must be made accountable to both.

Or have you forgotten Matthew 22.21?

Matthew 22.21:
“Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s.”

I find it hard to believe the Church had a higher duty to God when it chose to protect pedophiles and the Church's reputation at the expense of children.

Matthew 7.1-6 -- Judge not lest ye be judged -- should not be taken as a directive to not punish wrongdoers. It is to acknowledge one's own imperfections and to reflect upon them before taking actions against what you perceive to be wrongdoing in order to ascertain if what you are doing is just. Am I imperfect? Yes. But does not mean I should not call out for justice when I see an injustice being done. Or refrain from pointing out hypocrisy when I see it in spades.

A pot calling a kettle black is hypocrisy. A pot calling a kettle a hypocrite when it is one is not.

**Julie** · 24 Oct 04,, 05:26

Originally Posted by Confed999

Just curious, were any there ever caught?

I don't understand....any [who] ever caught doing what?

**Confed999** · 24 Oct 04,, 16:02

Originally Posted by Julie

I don't understand....any [who] ever caught doing what?

Were any of the people, at the church your mother told you to stay away from, caught doing anything illicit? You were probably too young to know, but I like it when bad people get busted, so I had to ask.

**Fonnicker** · 24 Oct 04,, 23:30

Here's a great example of tolerance. IMHO this is what freedom of religion is all about.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...hip/index.html

**Lucien LaCroix** · 24 Oct 04,, 23:49

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

I love organized religion. Can an organization that covered up innumerable abuses against children by pedophile priests really have any authority at all when saying a vote for Kerry is a vote for evil?

Why not? You have a liberal Senator from Massachussetts who killed a woman while driving drunk but who still makes laws in the country; you have a liberal New York newspaper that hires black reporter because of the color of his skin, then finds out that he is fabricating stories, but that newspaper still has the audacity to endorse political candidates; you have a liberal network newcaster who uses forged military service documents to attack a sitting president, yet he still has his job; you have a liberal black preacher who refers to Jews as "hymies," fathers a child out of wedlock, then pays hush money from his Rainbow coalition to keep her comfortable (and quiet), but has the gall to say anything critical of conservative candidates...

...etc., etc., etc...

**Ziska** · 25 Oct 04,, 02:00

How typical of a Catholic to claim that the RCC is the largest force for good in the world.

Every other christian church would claim that God is the greatest (and only) source of good, but anyway...

BTW, this is not a personal attack on any catholics here. I would welcome any debate about doctrine, but I'm not interested in name-calling or mudslinging.

**Donnie** · 25 Oct 04,, 18:06

Originally Posted by Ziska

How typical of a Catholic to claim that the RCC is the largest force for good in the world.

im not catholic, i was raised as such, but im not practicing, and i dont believe in allot of thier beliefs.

Originally Posted by Ziska

Every other christian church would claim that God is the greatest (and only) source of good, but anyway...

everyone has the potential force of good or evil, its freewill, so if you do good then the source of that good is you, if you do it for God, great, but many do good for other reasons.

besides i didnt think Gods kingdom was on this planet?, i also thought that people have free will, so they have the choice to do evil or good, with or without God, the Catholic church is the largest religious contributer of charity on this planet, among the many thousands of other things it would make them the largest organization doing good in the world.

**Ziska** · 25 Oct 04,, 23:42

I was talking more to Franco, but anyway

The Catholic church does donate a lot of money, but they have a lot of money to give. It is one of the wealthiest organisations in the world. I believe they are the third largest property owner in Melbourne, for example.

They get much of their money from dubious persons, paying their way out of trouble. Or they get it from the people they spend it on, ie, the faithful poor.

**Prodigal Son** · 27 Oct 04,, 17:45

Why not? You have a liberal Senator from Massachussetts who killed a woman while driving drunk but who still makes laws in the country; you have a liberal New York newspaper that hires black reporter because of the color of his skin, then finds out that he is fabricating stories, but that newspaper still has the audacity to endorse political candidates; you have a liberal network newcaster who uses forged military service documents to attack a sitting president, yet he still has his job; you have a liberal black preacher who refers to Jews as "hymies," fathers a child out of wedlock, then pays hush money from his Rainbow coalition to keep her comfortable (and quiet), but has the gall to say anything critical of conservative candidates...

Pedophilia. The rape of children. Children. Do you really suppose Ted Kennedy's problems with drunk driving, the NYT's problem with a bad reporter (which it corrected by the way) or whathaveyou REALLY compares to the Church's pedophilia scandal? Is protecting a criminal that RAPES CHILDREN as bad as Dan Rather's inept attempt to smear Bush? Do you REALLY believe this is the case? Is Jesse Jackson calling Jews Hymies really as bad as allowing pedophiles to infest th church and prey on children? Is the Jason Blair episode as bad a breach of trust as moving pedophiles around to avoid prosecution?

Do you really believe this?

**barrowaj** · 27 Oct 04,, 23:35

Originally Posted by Franco Lolan

The Catholic Church is AWESOME! It is the greatest force for good on the planet.

You mean good deeds like:
1. The crusades
2. Selling indemnities
3. Imprisioning Galileo, killing other dissidents
4. Harboring Nazi war criminals
5. And many others...

**Lucien LaCroix** · 27 Oct 04,, 23:40

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

Pedophilia. The rape of children. Children. Do you really suppose Ted Kennedy's problems with drunk driving, the NYT's problem with a bad reporter (which it corrected by the way) or whathaveyou REALLY compares to the Church's pedophilia scandal? Is protecting a criminal that RAPES CHILDREN as bad as Dan Rather's inept attempt to smear Bush? Do you REALLY believe this is the case? Is Jesse Jackson calling Jews Hymies really as bad as allowing pedophiles to infest th church and prey on children? Is the Jason Blair episode as bad a breach of trust as moving pedophiles around to avoid prosecution?

Do you really believe this?

And do you believe the death of an innocent woman at the hands of a drunk politician doesn't compare (particularly since he has remained in office)? And do you believe that an attempt by a news anchor to taint the electorate in an effort to remove a sitting president of the United States of America doesn't compare? And do you believe that a "holy" man inciting hatred against a particular religious group doesn't compare--particularly when you consider that that religious group has had millions slaughtered in the past under the guise of similar "minor" name-calling?

Do you really believe this?

I've read your commentary on this particular subject. I don't know if you have a problem with religion, in general; with Catholicism, in particular; or with the fact that members of the Roman Catholic Church have endorsed political candidates who do not find favor with you. Perhaps it is their stance on homosexuality, gay marriage, or abortion. Regardless, it is obvious that your seething resentment goes well beyond the issue of pedophile priests.

Tell me, are you as quick to castigate prominent liberals with unsavory pasts when they endorse candidates that you favor? Or do you just let them slide?

**Recon_sgt** · 28 Oct 04,, 13:31

Anyone who listens to the catholic church in regards to voting is a sadly misslead individual (this is undeniable fact).
As you may know I am from Ireland (Emerald isle, land of saints and scholars, Eire, that little rock at the edge of Europe etc etc) and here we have had our fill of catholicism and its lies.
On a minor note they try and claim the 1798 rebelion (theobald wolfe tone and the united irish men) as a catholic rebelion. This is not so as it was a rebelion by united irish men regardless of religious belief. However the major breach of our freedom by them is contained in Irelands history between 1924 and 1984. In this period most noted the first 40 years their power hungry bishops controlled our nations fate and very existence.

.
I will start with the industrial schools system which they ran. Within institutions such as Letterfrack, Artane, st Judes and the famous magdaline laundries women and children were forced into slave labour. These institutions ran by Christian brothers and sisters of mercy etc bore more resemblance to concentration camps than schools or places of work.
There have been thousands of do***ented cases of near systematic rape and abuse in the boys industrial schools such as st Judes and Artane (if you want a very good representation of events on screen watch "song for a raggy boy", while somewhat fictional it is fact based and from victims accounts is very close to the reality of these places).
But the worst is Letterfrack. does the phrase MASS GRAVE catch your attention. There is a mass grave in which they exhumed over a hundred undeclared dead children at letterfrack and fear they will find more. If you dont believe me check it up it shouldnt be too difficult to locate info on all of this.

. Take my advise never ever let the catholic church influence anything you do because one little bit of power and they soon grow hungry for more

**Recon_sgt** · 28 Oct 04,, 13:47

In the early 50's the then Irish minister Noel Browne proposed the "mother and child scheme". This new idea would have offered healthcare to those who needed it most at very low or no cost at all. child death in Ireland was ridiculously high and this new scheme would have eliminated the majority of problems and brought Ireland out of the 3rd world. But this would have alowed people greater freedom and allowed more people to concentrate their finances on education rather than healthcare. The end result being educated poor people. This would have spelled doom for the catholic bishops who controlled Ireland at the time so they opposed it. The then taoiseach being spineless in nature dismissed Browne from the dail at the behest of the bishops. This is a clear highlight of the kind of power they held and the fact that keeping the people ignorant (thus making them easy to trick with talk of devils and demons) would keep them in power.

.

**Prodigal Son** · 28 Oct 04,, 22:55

And do you believe the death of an innocent woman at the hands of a drunk politician doesn't compare (particularly since he has remained in office)?

Of course it's wrong. Did I say otherwise? But INNOCENT CHILDREN WERE RAPED BY PRIESTS. This occurred on a massive scale, they were not isolated incidents. Pedophilia and covering up pedophilia became institutionalized within the Church. Are you saying THIS compares to the rape of little children at the hands of priests?

And do you believe that an attempt by a news anchor to taint the electorate in an effort to remove a sitting president of the United States of America doesn't compare?

Ahem...swiftboatvets for "truth"? Rush Limbaugh? Bill O'Reilly? The entire facade of "fair and balanced" "journalism" at FOX?

And no, it doesn't compare. Politics is a dirty game. Raping children and then covering it up to protect yourself and your institution doesn't compare. At least I don't think so. Of course, I guess you do....

And do you believe that a "holy" man inciting hatred against a particular religious group doesn't compare--particularly when you consider that that religious group has had millions slaughtered in the past under the guise of similar "minor" name-calling?

Do you really believe this?

Jesse Jackson calling Jews Hymies -- hurting their feelings -- is up there with the RAPE of children on a mass scale and efforts to COVER IT UP?

You're nuts.

So tell me...which is worse?

Raping children and covering it up

OR

Lying under oath about a *******?

OR

A shady financial deal in Arkansas?

OR

Trading with Iran, a sworn enemy of the United States?

There are a lot of bad things in the world. But how you can POSSIBLY compare Jesse Jackson calling jews "hymies" with the rape of children I don't know. I feel sorry for you.

I've read your commentary on this particular su**ect. I don't know if you have a problem with religion, in general;

I think it's generally goofy, but harmless in most instances.

with Catholicism, in particular; or with the fact that members of the Roman Catholic Church have endorsed political candidates who do not find favor with you. Perhaps it is their stance on homosexuality, gay marriage, or abortion. Regardless, it is obvious that your seething resentment goes well beyond the issue of pedophile priests.

Sigh....

When religions and religious people do silly, stupid things or hurt people they aren't called on it because, in America, it's for some reason "taboo" to call attention to problems with others religious faith. It's a blatant double-standard. The foundation of religious groups' moral authority is their behavior, not their self-reported link to the almighty. I'm judging these bishops by their behavior -- which is shameful and not worthy of anybody's respect, Catholics especially.

Here you are, attacking me as "anti-Catholic" when all I'm doing is pointing out that the same bishops condemning Kerry for his views on abortion have done relatively little to root out an unimaginable sin in their own institution. Any organization that puts precedence on attacking a political candidate, ANY CANDIDATE, over confronting and rooting out CHILD RAPISTS in that organization has little or no claim to moral authority.

Tell me, are you as quick to castigate prominent liberals with unsavory pasts when they endorse candidates that you favor? Or do you just let them slide?

Do you know of any prominent liberals that have raped children and then attempted to use their moral authority to attack their political opponents?

**South** · 28 Oct 04,, 23:26

Okay, so both sides of this argument are valid to a certain degree. Pedophilia is wrong because innocent children are being harmed. I think that mostly everyone can agree with that. Catholic bishops are against Kerry. That could be okay also. They are just voicing their opinion, after all. This is freedom of speech. But what is at the root of this argument? Why are there, it seems right now, so many pedophiles employed by the Catholic Church in the first place? If we all could discuss how to solve this problem, this argument might disappear to a certain extent. Why do many priests turn to pedophilia? I am just trying to understand here, without bias, why this happens in the Catholic Church, and not necessarily in other religions.