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    Bush Remaking Supreme Court

    January 15, 2006
    DEMOCRATS SEE WIDE BUSH STAMP ON COURT SYSTEM
    By ADAM NAGOURNEY, RICHARD W. STEVENSON and NEIL A. LEWIS

    This article was reported by Adam Nagourney, Richard W. Stevenson and Neil A. Lewis and written by Mr. Nagourney.

    WASHINGTON, Jan. 14 - Disheartened by the administration's success with the Supreme Court nomination of Judge Samuel A. Alito Jr., Democratic leaders say that President Bush is putting an enduring conservative ideological imprint on the nation's judiciary, and that they see little hope of holding off the tide without winning back control of the Senate or the White House.

    In interviews, Democrats said that the lesson of the Alito hearings was that this White House could put on the bench almost any qualified candidate, even one whom Democrats consider to be ideologically out of step with the country.

    That conclusion amounts to a repudiation of a central part of a strategy Senate Democrats settled on years ago in a private retreat where they discussed how to fight a Bush White House effort to recast the judiciary: to argue against otherwise qualified candidates by saying they were taking the courts too far to the right.

    Even though Democrats thought from the beginning that they had little hope of defeating the nomination, they were dismayed that a nominee with such clear conservative views - in particular a written record of opposition to abortion rights - appeared to be stirring little opposition.

    Republicans said that Mr. Bush, in making conservative judicial choices, was doing precisely what he said he would do in both of his presidential campaigns, and indeed that his re-election, and the election of a Republican Congress, meant that the choices reflected the views of much of the American public.

    Republicans rejected Democratic assertions that Judge Alito was out of the mainstream. "The American people see Judge Alito and say, that's exactly the sort of person we want to see on the Supreme Court," said Steve Schmidt, the White House official who managed the nomination.

    As a result, several Democrats said, Mr. Bush - even at a time when many of his other initiatives seem in doubt and when he had been forced by conservatives to withdraw his first choice for the seat - appeared on the verge of achieving what he had set as a primary goal of his presidency: a fundamental reshaping of the federal judiciary along more conservative lines. Mr. Bush has now appointed one-quarter of the federal appeals court judges, and, assuming Judge Alito is confirmed, will have put two self-described conservatives on a Supreme Court that has only two members appointed by a Democratic president.

    "They have made a lot of progress," said Ronald A. Klain, a former Democratic chief counsel for the Judiciary Committee and the White House counsel in charge of judicial nominations for President Bill Clinton. "I hate to say they're done because Lord only knows what's next. They have achieved a large part of their objective."

    Asked if he had any hope that Democrats could slow President Bush's effort to push the court to the right, Mr. Klain responded: "No. The only thing that will fix this is a Democratic president and more vacancies. It takes a long time to make these kinds of changes and it's going to take a long time to undo them."

    Senator Charles E. Schumer, a New York Democrat and a member of the Judiciary Committee, said it was now hard to imagine a legislative strategy that could slow Mr. Bush's judicial campaign, assuming vacancies continue to emerge, at least through the end of this year.

    "To stop a president on judicial nominations, you either need a Democratic president, a Democratic Senate or moderate Republicans who will break ranks when it's a conservative nominee," Mr. Schumer said. "We don't have any of those three. The only tool we have is the filibuster, which is a very difficult tool to use, and with only 45 Democrats, it's harder than it was last term."

    Few Democrats or analysts said they thought that Judge Alito's nomination could ever be blocked, noting that as a rule presidents tend to get their Supreme Court nominees approved by the Senate. "It may be a mistake to think that their failure demonstrates that they necessarily did something wrong," said Richard H. Fallon, a professor of constitutional law at Harvard Law School. Referring to one of the major Democratic complaints about Judge Alito's testimony, Mr. Fallon said: "As long as most of the public will settle for evasive or uninformative answers, maybe there was nothing that they could have done to get Alito to make a major error."

    Nonetheless, there have been some recriminations in the party since the hearings ended about how Democrats responded to a nominee who once seemed an easier target than Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr., because of his long record of written opinions and briefs.

    Several Democrats expressed frustration over what they saw as the Republicans outmaneuvering them by drawing attention to an episode Wednesday when Judge Alito's wife, Martha-Ann, began crying as her husband was being questioned. That evening, senior Democratic senate aides convened at the Dirksen Senate Office Building, stunned at the realization that the pictures of a weeping Mrs. Alito were being broadcast across the nation - as opposed to, for example, Senator Edward M. Kennedy, Democrat of Massachusetts, pressing Judge Alito about his membership in an alumni club that resisted affirmative action efforts.

    "Had she not cried, we would have won that day," said one Senate strategist involved in the hearings, who did not want to be quoted by name discussing the Democrats' problems. "It got front-page attention. It was on every local news show."

    Beyond that, they said Judge Alito had turned out to be a more skillful witness than they had expected. They said Democrats on the Judiciary Committee had been outflanked in their efforts to pin down Judge Alito on any issues, that some of the questioners - notably Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., Democrat of Delaware - devoted more time to talking than to pressing the nominee for answers.

    "You're trying to convince the American people that this man is not on your side. Obviously, we didn't do a very good job," said Dale Bumpers, a former Democratic senator from Arkansas. "Or I'd put it this way: Alito and Roberts did a good enough job that the Democrats couldn't make that case."

    Tom Daschle, the former Democratic senator from South Dakota, said: "It is causing far more serious consideration by at least the Democrats on the Judiciary Committee of what you do in future cases. How do you make clear where this person stands? Alito was pretty successful at getting through this maze."

    The developments were particularly frustrating, they said, because Mr. Bush has never made a secret of what he wanted to do with the judiciary. Democrats had devoted much energy to trying to stop it.

    The Democratic push began in earnest on the last weekend of April 2001, when 42 of the 50 Democratic senators attended a retreat in Farmington, Pa., to hear from experts and discuss ways they could fight a Bush effort to remake the judiciary.

    "There were very few principles on which we could all agree," said Mr. Daschle, who was Senate minority leader at the time of the meeting. "But one was that we anticipated that the administration would test the envelope. They were going to go as far as the envelope would allow in appointing conservative judges."

    At the 2001 retreat, Democrats listened to a panel composed of Laurence H. Tribe of Harvard Law School, Cass R. Sunstein of the University of Chicago Law School and Marcia D. Greenberger, the co-president of the National Women's Law Center. The panelists told them that the court was at a historic juncture and that the Bush White House was prepared to fill the courts with conservatives who deserved particularly strong scrutiny, participants said.

    The panel also advised them, participants said, that Democratic senators could oppose even nominees with strong credentials on the grounds that the White House was trying to push the courts in a conservative direction, a strategy that now seems to have failed the party.

    Mr. Tribe said Friday that Democrats were increasingly discouraged in their efforts to mount opposition campaigns. "When it comes down to it, the numbers of Democrats means that it begins to feel to some like tilting at windmills," he said.

    Members of the committee, while defending their performance, said they were hampered because many of the issues they needed to deal with - such as theories of executive power - were arcane and did not lend themselves to building a public case against Judge Alito.

    Mr. Kennedy said the nomination process, and particularly the hearings, had "turned into a political campaign," and that the White House had proved increasingly skilled in turning that to its advantage.

    "These issues are so sophisticated - half the Senate didn't know what the unitary presidency was, let alone the people of Boston," he said, referring to one of the legal theories that was a focus of the hearings. "I'm sure we could have done better."

    "But what has happened is that this has turned into a political campaign," he said. "The whole process has become so politicized that I think the American people walk away more confused about the way these people stand."

    Democratic aides said there was even less strategy than usual in trying to coordinate the questioning by the eight Democratic senators. The situation was complicated because senators and staff were out of Washington before the hearing on a break.

    But while there was some self-criticism among Democrats, the main concern coming out of the hearings was that the nation had reached a turning point in the ideological composition of its judicial system.

    By the end of last year, about 60 percent of the 165 judges on the federal appeals courts were appointed by Republican presidents, with 40 percent from Democratic presidents. Of the 13 circuit courts of appeal, 9 have majorities of judges named by Republicans presidents.

    The extent to which Republicans are intent on remaking the judiciary was demonstrated by one of President Bush's greatest setbacks, when he was forced to abandon the Supreme Court nomination of Harriet E. Miers, in no small part because conservatives were distrustful of her position on abortion rights.

    Indeed, many Democrats said that what took place with both the Roberts and Alito nominations simply underlined what Senator John Kerry, the Massachusetts Democratic who ran for president in 2004, said would happen to the court if Mr. Bush was returned to the White House.

    "George Bush won the election," said Representative Rahm Emanuel, an Illinois Democrat. "If you don't like it, you better win elections."

    Neil A. Lewis contributed reporting for this article.
    On this largely conservative board, this news analysis will certainly be greeted with glee. However, besides the expected jubilation of victory, and vilification of Democrats, the fact remains that the Supreme Court will probably be taking a new direction. Abortion may be reviewed, presidential power may be expanded, and religion may be given a greater role in government.

    The face of America will change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulgaroctonus
    On this largely conservative board, this news analysis will certainly be greeted with glee. However, besides the expected jubilation of victory, and vilification of Democrats, the fact remains that the Supreme Court will probably be taking a new direction. Abortion may be reviewed, presidential power may be expanded, and religion may be given a greater role in government.

    The face of America will change.
    It's much too early to make any comments on the direction of the court. From a party standpoint, 7 of 9 justices on the court were appointed by Republicans. You can look at Justice Souter, appointed by Bush 41, as an example of a justice who certainly doesn't side with the labeled ideology of the President who appointed him.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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    Senior Contributor Amled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulgaroctonus
    ...the fact remains that the Supreme Court will probably be taking a new direction. Abortion may be reviewed, presidential power may be expanded, and religion may be given a greater role in government...
    As a question of interest, how difficult would it be for a sitting Suprem Court to rule against judgements handed down by previous sitting Courts?
    When we blindly adopt a religion, a political system, a literary dogma, we become automatons. We cease to grow. - Anais Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by shek
    It's much too early to make any comments on the direction of the court. From a party standpoint, 7 of 9 justices on the court were appointed by Republicans. You can look at Justice Souter, appointed by Bush 41, as an example of a justice who certainly doesn't side with the labeled ideology of the President who appointed him.
    Sir,

    It is true that we can not say anything conclusive. I must first say that I have to put forth some kind of sensationalism, otherwise the thread will not be very popular. Who wants to discuss a story we can't say anything conclusive about?

    Let us speculate. It is true that some Republican appointed judges have broken lines. However, the situation now is certainly more favorable to the Republicans than ever before. You mentioned Justice Souter. He has proven himself a moderate, perhaps to the dissapointment of forty-first President's constituency. However, he was appointed at a time when the Republican hold on the government was weaker than it is today.

    Right now, the Republicans essentially have a monopoly on power. The hearings of Samuel Alito were largely a formality since he was never going to give concrete answers (not that the public cares for them or even watches the hearings) and the Democrats don't have enough votes to stop anything.

    In light of the new political climate, I think that the two George W. Bush appointments have significant potential for bringing about change. I am not concerned about Justice Roberts, since he seems to be a moderate. However, Samuel Alito was very elusive in his answers and some of his past indicates a passionate conservative mindset.

    I do not know what to make of Alito's affiliation with the Concerned Alumni of Princeton (CAP), a rabidly conservative (not to mention homophobic, sexist, and rascist) group at Princeton University. It seems that his membership was nominal, but even cursory alignment to such a group is disreputable.

    However, I found out that at Princeton, Alito led a student conference in 1971 called "The Boundaries of Privacy in American Society" which, among other things, supported curbs on domestic intelligence gathering, called for the legalization of sodomy, and urged for an end to discrimination against homosexuals in hiring by employers. During said conference, Alito stated that "no private sexual act between consenting adults should be forbidden."

    So what do we make of Alito? We'll never know since the Supreme Court hearings have not done a very good job of informing us.

    I expected Bush to appoint a conservative, it is a silly point of argument to protest on those grounds. However, I want to make sure that he doesn't contravene my judicial and legal interests, which might be called liberal.
    Last edited by Bulgaroctonus; 15 Jan 06, at 23:11.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amled
    As a question of interest, how difficult would it be for a sitting Suprem Court to rule against judgements handed down by previous sitting Courts?
    Last year, as part of my participation in regional school debates, I had to research a good amount of Supreme Court Cases.

    It seems the Supreme Court doesn't often explicitly rule against previous decisions, since such a thing would make the Court's opinions over time more vulnerable to questioning. Instead, the Court will decide that a situation cannot be affected by a certain system of laws or statutes.

    For example, on the issue of abortion, the Supreme Court would not say "Abortion is now illegal." Instead, they would probably review the case of Roe vs. Wade and determine that the Supreme Court never has the authority to deal with that case in the first place. Thus, the authority about abortion would devolve to the states, in which case abortion would become illegal in some conservative states.

    However, I am not an authority on Supreme Court procedure. The senior members here can fill you in on that.
    Last edited by Bulgaroctonus; 15 Jan 06, at 23:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amled
    As a question of interest, how difficult would it be for a sitting Suprem Court to rule against judgements handed down by previous sitting Courts?
    Not too hard, depending on the issue. In Plessy v. Ferguson, the segregation of the white and black populations was upheld under the concept of "separate but equal." While separate, the situation certainly wasn't equal for blacks. I can't remember the date of the case, but I believe it was in the 1950s. A decade later or so, the court reversed itself and ruled that separate but equal was anything but, and it struck down laws of segregation. Abortion in the US wasn't universally legal until 1973. It had been a state issue prior, and most if not all states had outlawed abortion. However, there are certainly some justices on the Court that believe that the Roe v. Wade decision was flawed. If the Democrats worst fears are realized with Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Scalia, all it would take is one more Bush 43 appointment to tip the scales (while he doesn't have a litmus test over abortion, by appointing strict interpreters of the Constitution, which doesn't mention abortion at all, a justice is more likely to no agree with Roe v. Wade).
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulgaroctonus
    On this largely conservative board, this news analysis will certainly be greeted with glee. However, besides the expected jubilation of victory, and vilification of Democrats, the fact remains that the Supreme Court will probably be taking a new direction. Abortion may be reviewed, presidential power may be expanded, and religion may be given a greater role in government.

    The face of America will change.
    Just to nitpick, Bush is not a true conservative, although he is commonly regarded as such. He is a neoconservative.

    Neocons reject much of traditional conservatism. For example, conservatism is typically very skeptical of foreign interventionism. Our Founding Fathers warned us of such things, e.g., George Washington's Farewell Address warned against the US getting involved in "entangling alliances." Boy, was he ever right. The entire reason why 9/11 happened and why the US was suckered into occupying Iraq is because of Zionist (both Christian and Jewish) influence on the US government. Greater loyalty to Israel than to America is a key tenet of neoconservatism. Though of course neocons will never admit that, there's a reason why support for using US blood and money to meddle in the Middle East is the one common denominator in all their writings. The "War on Terrorism" could be won overnight if the US military would just recall everyone from Iraq, seal the borders of the US to keep out illegal immigrants, and stop funding the Israeli war machine. The Israelis have nukes and one of the strongest militaries US taxpayer money can buy. They don't need to keep sniping Palestinian schoolgirls for their security.

    Moreover, Bush is no better a guardian of the Constitution than Bill Clinton. How many gun laws has Bush advocated rolling back? How about the time when, during one of his visits to a Texas town, residents were forbidden to even look out of their windows? The man is a tyrant, pure and simple.

    If you want to see a genuine conservative, the perfect example is Ron Paul of Texas. He is the only member of Congress I know of who isn't a traitor to the Constititution and a whore to the AIPAC and other special interests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger
    Just to nitpick, Bush is not a true conservative, although he is commonly regarded as such. He is a neoconservative.

    Neocons reject much of traditional conservatism. For example, conservatism is typically very skeptical of foreign interventionism. Our Founding Fathers warned us of such things, e.g., George Washington's Farewell Address warned against the US getting involved in "entangling alliances." Boy, was he ever right. The entire reason why 9/11 happened and why the US was suckered into occupying Iraq is because of Zionist (both Christian and Jewish) influence on the US government. Greater loyalty to Israel than to America is a key tenet of neoconservatism. Though of course neocons will never admit that, there's a reason why support for using US blood and money to meddle in the Middle East is the one common denominator in all their writings. The "War on Terrorism" could be won overnight if the US military would just recall everyone from Iraq, seal the borders of the US to keep out illegal immigrants, and stop funding the Israeli war machine. The Israelis have nukes and one of the strongest militaries US taxpayer money can buy. They don't need to keep sniping Palestinian schoolgirls for their security.

    Moreover, Bush is no better a guardian of the Constitution than Bill Clinton. How many gun laws has Bush advocated rolling back? How about the time when, during one of his visits to a Texas town, residents were forbidden to even look out of their windows? The man is a tyrant, pure and simple.

    If you want to see a genuine conservative, the perfect example is Ron Paul of Texas. He is the only member of Congress I know of who isn't a traitor to the Constititution and a whore to the AIPAC and other special interests.
    It's an American anti-Semitic! Make sure you make lots of foreign telepohone calls so the NSA can get your number.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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    Quote Originally Posted by shek
    Not too hard, depending on the issue. In Plessy v. Ferguson, the segregation of the white and black populations was upheld under the concept of "separate but equal." While separate, the situation certainly wasn't equal for blacks. I can't remember the date of the case, but I believe it was in the 1950s. A decade later or so, the court reversed itself and ruled that separate but equal was anything but, and it struck down laws of segregation. Abortion in the US wasn't universally legal until 1973. It had been a state issue prior, and most if not all states had outlawed abortion. However, there are certainly some justices on the Court that believe that the Roe v. Wade decision was flawed. If the Democrats worst fears are realized with Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Scalia, all it would take is one more Bush 43 appointment to tip the scales (while he doesn't have a litmus test over abortion, by appointing strict interpreters of the Constitution, which doesn't mention abortion at all, a justice is more likely to no agree with Roe v. Wade).
    Plessy v. Ferguson May 18, 1896. What is interesting is the dissenting opinion of Justice John Marshall Harlan 1833-1911 from Kentucky ( republican )

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    Lord High Hullabalooster Senior Contributor dalem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulgaroctonus
    On this largely conservative board, this news analysis will certainly be greeted with glee. However, besides the expected jubilation of victory, and vilification of Democrats, the fact remains that the Supreme Court will probably be taking a new direction. Abortion may be reviewed, presidential power may be expanded, and religion may be given a greater role in government.

    The face of America will change.
    If true, so what? The court was fairly liberal and lefty for the past few decades, now it might swing a little to the right, maybe stopping in the center for a while.

    Why is that a bad thing?

    And oh yeah, the author of that article is a lying paranoid fool:

    "The extent to which Republicans are intent on remaking the judiciary was demonstrated by one of President Bush's greatest setbacks, when he was forced to abandon the Supreme Court nomination of Harriet E. Miers, in no small part because conservatives were distrustful of her position on abortion rights."
    Actually if he had been paying attention he would know that the conservatives who howled against Meirs did so based upon her perceived lack of judicial experience, and complained that the President had picked her based mainly on her anti-abortion stance.

    But why let facts get in the way of a good scare?

    -dale
    Last edited by dalem; 15 Jan 06, at 19:57.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger
    The entire reason why 9/11 happened and why the US was suckered into occupying Iraq is because of Zionist (both Christian and Jewish) influence on the US government.
    I think you have been reading too much Al-Jazeera trash, or you belong to one of the many college campus anti-Israel groups. 9/11 happened for a few different reasons, but American Zionism was not a primary factor. It is true that the Arab world despises our support of Israel, but bin Laden was more angry over the presence of American soldiers in Saudi Arabia, land he considers holy and inviolable to infidels such as Americans.

    Furthermore, is support of Israel a bad thing? Sure, it angers the Muslim world, but Israel has common interests with the U.S. It is the most democratic and modern government in the Middle East. It is only natural that we side with Israel.

    However, Arab governments also receive a good amount of aid from the U.S. Egypt alone gets at least $1 billion in military aid annually. Saudi Arabia is basically married to the United States. Its a common theme for the Arabs to blame Israel, but what have they done for themselves? It wasn't Israel that created the fascist Assad regime in Syria, or the repressive Wahhabi cult in Saudi Arabia.

    No, my friend, I think a good amount of 9/11 rests solely with the Muslims. Their culture is missing the boat on globalization. The UNDP's Arab Human Development Report found that the GDP of all Arab nations combined was less than that of Spain, a single country! The Muslim world has huge problems with unemployment, illiteracy, despotism, and intolerance.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger
    Greater loyalty to Israel than to America is a key tenet of neoconservatism.
    Loyalty to Israel has been part of American foreign policy long before the neo-cons. It is not true that neo-cons care more about Israel than the U.S. That is just asinine. Neo-cons are usually protrayed as cynical, shrewd operators that do everything possible to advance U.S. interests, especially those of the international private sector.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger
    The "War on Terrorism" could be won overnight if the US military would just recall everyone from Iraq, seal the borders of the US to keep out illegal immigrants, and stop funding the Israeli war machine. The Israelis have nukes and one of the strongest militaries US taxpayer money can buy.
    The 'Israeli war machine'? Hey, if the Israelis didn't have a strong army they would all be dead. Maybe you should read history and see that Israel has had to face up to six Arab armies at one time. When a country is surrounded by a sea of enemies, they need a great army. That army fights for the lives of its people, more power to them.

    As to your theory about pulling out of Iraq, dead wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger
    They don't need to keep sniping Palestinian schoolgirls for their security.
    Please, find where that happened. Also, try and find out if those schoolgirls happened to be throwing rocks or living in a house that Palestinian gunmen were shooting out of.

    Don't even try to demonize Israel or the Jews. When it comes to brutality, the Palestinians really win first prize. The occasional civilian casualty from Israeli fire is an unfortunate accident. However, it is an accident. However, the Palestinians directly target civilians, that is their goal.

    I am the anti-anti-Semite. I won't allow any slanderous comments about Israel made here. Go there and see what Israel has to deal with. Go look in the faces of Israeli soldiers that put their lives on the line for their people at the ages of 18 and 19.

    Never be fooled by anti-Semitism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunslinger
    Moreover, Bush is no better a guardian of the Constitution than Bill Clinton. How many gun laws has Bush advocated rolling back? How about the time when, during one of his visits to a Texas town, residents were forbidden to even look out of their windows? The man is a tyrant, pure and simple.

    If you want to see a genuine conservative, the perfect example is Ron Paul of Texas. He is the only member of Congress I know of who isn't a traitor to the Constititution and a whore to the AIPAC and other special interests.
    Gunslinger,

    It sounds like you might have some legitimate arguments against President Bush, but the people on this board will never listen to a simple denunciation of him on grounds of maturity. To be truly incisive, offer more concrete facts. I can't promise you that your opponents will listen then, but you're argument will certainly look better.

    Anyway, I'd like this to be the last post in this vein. Let's stay on the Supreme Court.
    Last edited by Bulgaroctonus; 16 Jan 06, at 15:42.

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    I don't agree with his arguements, but I'd like to add in his defense that hating a race or ethnic group and not supporting the nation where that race is a majority are not the same thing. May of you have, for example professed hatred, or at least dislike, for the authoritarian regime in China, but I don't think anybody would call you racist against Chinese because of it.
    "Its true, we add insult to injury, but... you add the injury"
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    Quote Originally Posted by clegane
    I don't agree with his arguements, but I'd like to add in his defense that hating a race or ethnic group and not supporting the nation where that race is a majority are not the same thing. May of you have, for example professed hatred, or at least dislike, for the authoritarian regime in China, but I don't think anybody would call you racist against Chinese because of it.
    Clegane,

    You do raise a valid point. Objection to a government is not the same as rascism towards the inhabitants of that nation. However, anti-Israeli sentiment often goes hand in hand with anti-Semitism. Gunslinger also used the term 'Zionism' which is a lazy term. If Gunslinger actually had a valid complaint against Israel, he would list his objections to Israeli policy, not Zionism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dalem
    If true, so what? The court was fairly liberal and lefty for the past few decades, now it might swing a little to the right, maybe stopping in the center for a while.

    Why is that a bad thing?
    I'm not going to make a larger point about if conservatism is bad. First of all, the term 'conservatism' is not well-defined, similar to the ambiguity surrounding 'liberal.' Furthermore, such an argument would be an immense waste of time, and would devolve into generalities and hatred. I really don't care enough to get into it.

    I would like the court to be in the middle, that is where I want the entire government to be. However, let's not kid ourselves. The Republicans don't want the court to stop swinging towards the right, just as the Democrats wouldn't want the court to stop swinging towards the left.

    So, while both parties want their ideas to be carried out the in Supreme Court, my ideology is not very compatible with many conservative ideas. Therefore, a conservative swing in government is not good for me, a liberal. It is very simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by dalem
    And oh yeah, the author of that article is a lying paranoid fool:
    Nagourney?

    Quote Originally Posted by dalem
    Actually if he had been paying attention he would know that the conservatives who howled against Meirs did so based upon her perceived lack of judicial experience, and complained that the President had picked her based mainly on her anti-abortion stance.

    But why let facts get in the way of a good scare?

    -dale
    I'm currently going over online documents of Mier's hearings and news coverage to see exactly why the conservatives objected to her nomination.

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    There many objections to Miers' nomination. The most prominent one was a lack of qualification, but the other big one was the chance that she might "go Souter" and make a wild swing to the left. Trent Lott, Billy Graham( or was it Pat Robertson?) and others brought that up on programs such as Meet the Press.
    "Its true, we add insult to injury, but... you add the injury"
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