Quote:
Originally Posted by hx37
Ray, please read my post a little bit more closely. I stated that I have summarized the CCP-defenders' points on why they think the Tibetan issue is misconstrued - I did NOT say that I agreed with them. Your replies to the summarized points are valid, and I personally feel that many aspects of their argument are based on shaky logic at best.
As for Legalism being the cause of apathy, that is NOT what I wrote. I stated that Legalism is NOT the cause, rather the relatively quick shifting from communism to capitalism by the Chinese. You pointed out that Hans have suffered worse conditions within the last few decades - I've forgotten to take that into account, and stand corrected. However, I was thinking of the Han population today, instead of thirty years ago. There have been democratic reforms in China, along with better (still censored) access to information in the major cities. I do not believe that they would step meekly in line at this age due to these two reasons.
The reason why I do not think Legalism is widespread in China is due to the fact that I hardly ever encounter anyone who even knows of the philosophy. You stated that Legalism is based on the assumption that the State is always greater than the Individual. Yet within the last century we have seen 2 revolutions that toppled the government, both started by the people, instead of some power-struggle at the top. Granted there were some extraordinary circumstances at the time, but the fact that the Chinese have toppled two governments within a span of a few decades do not give credence to widespread Legalism - since these were clear instances of the Individual triumphing over the State.
I did not mean to dehumanize the Hans as you said, but I have observed an obsession over materialism ascend within the last decade or so among the younger generations of Hans. It's great that there are Hans on this board who truly care about the poor, however, I've found that in reality people like them are in the minority. The gap between the rich and poor are growing wider in China, and most of the rich/middle class look down at the poor with disdain. I base my observations on my trips to Shanghai, where I've observed some truly apathetic behavior among the population of that city.
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I am not in anyway suggesting that the status quo is changed in China by force or by foreign intervention, morally or otherwise.
I am only for an amicable settlement and letting the Tibetan have their way of life, archaic or otherwise, provided human rights values are maintained.
The start is talk. So, talk.
I have great regards for the Hans as human being and their cultural heritage and what they have contributed to the world. Make no mistake about that. What upsets me is the ‘imperialist’ mindset and that Han culture is uber alles!
I don’t buy the idea that the shifting from Communism to Capitalism has being cataclysmic. India is going through the same throes. Socialism and centralised planning to crass commercialism and materialism! We have not gone overboard!
There may have been two revolutions, but it is when the straw broke the Camel’s back. I presume you are alluding to Sun Yat Sen and Mao. You must look closely at these two situations in history to realise the social interplay at work. And yet, once established, Legalism came into play. The Cultural Revolution itself was enough to cause a backlash on Mao. It never happened!
Take the example of Singapore. The govt is the Mother Father – Legalism and there is no turmoil that brought about this Legalism! The Chinese are the majority and it permeates to others. I was there myself and I was more Legalism minded than many genuine Singaporean! I made it a point to hold onto my cigarette till I came to a bin, unlike some who had chucked it onthe road!! It grows on you, especially when there is too much of turmoil otherwise or maybe because I was an Army man brainwashed to avoiding chaos as one Chinese poster stated so cutely!
I have seen Mainland Chinese labour working in Singapore. If they are charged with apathy, then the Indian labour signatures the dead!!