Quote:
Originally Posted by Zemco
I never said 9-11 was foreseen, but involvement in Afghanistan clearly was, because the US was ferrying arms and munitions to northern tribal militias from its bases in Central Asia with assistance from India for several years prior to 9-11.
|
Funny, I could've sworn those were Russian made AK-47s and RPGs in Massoud's arsenal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zemco
Regardless, 9-11 did not cause "a complete left-turn in everything." Do you even have a clue how long it takes to set up an intelligence network and bring it to a point where it's providing information of value? And we're talking about Central Asian states that are tribal/clan based societies that have Turko-Mongolic tribes the vast majority of Americans don't even know exist who speak languages even fewer people know exist. Which tribes/clans would be hostile/sympathetic to US interests? What are the inter-clan and inter-tribal dynamics? Who forms the intelligentsia, who are the most influential leaders, and who has the ability to be a future puppet leader?
|
Which was why the 22SAS went in 1st.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zemco
I wasn't commenting on the wisdom, ethics or morality of it, just stating the facts. It's a tribal and clan based society, so what do you expect? I don't recall democracy reigning supreme in 10th Century Europe, even though those societies had evolved from tribal/clan based to feudal societies. That should give you a clue as to how long problems will persist in Afghanistan (and Iraq and everywhere such societies exist).
|
I was commenting on your read on unprovoked invasion. Clearly, the Soviets had a much different plan than what the Afghan communists had in mind. Soviet advisors kept the Afghan Army in their barracks while Air Assault troops landed. Afghan officers were rounded up and shot. Then, Moscow installed their own puppet. It was an invasion in every sense of the word. Not big brother coming to help of little brother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zemco
Well, as I pointed out previously, the US had been arming and supplying the northern Afghan tribes from its bases in Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan for several years prior to 9-11, and the US wasn't doing that so the Afghans could have better quality Gun & Ammo shows at cheesy hotels and convention centers throughout the country.
|
Like I said, those were RPGs and AK-47s.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zemco
Obviously you don't play chess. I'll be black, make your first move, and I already know the outcome of the game, because without any effort I can see the next 18 moves and every possible variation thereof, and if you can only see 2 or 3 moves ahead I'll employ a strategy that forces you to do exactly what I want you to do, when I want you do to it, then dismantle your lines and check-mate your king.
|
Funny, I did this for a living. Find my minefields 1st, then we'll talk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zemco
In spite of what you might believe, the US is not wandering around aimlessly like an insect. It has a "grand strategy" that has been in place since 1974. To be sure, that isn't the only strategy the US has. To my knowledge, the US ignored Africa, mostly because the general consensus was that when MECAS was brought to fruition around 2035 or so, Africa would be ripe for the picking. However, I would guess the US has re-evaluated that in light of recent developments there, including Chinese involvement, and has developed or is developing long-range strategy, but won't fully implement it until MECAS is near completion or the Chinese force the US hand. I have no interest in Africa, so I haven't looked for anything indicating what the US strategy might be.
|
So, in other words, you don't know what the hell is going on. I will buy that there are overall goals that the US want to achieve but the details changes those goals and at times, got to be abandoned. The US lost in Iran, Vietnam, Lebanon, and Somalia. I don't buy for one second that those goals don't change nor given up because of exacting circumstances. Before 11 September, none of us imagined that a fractured NATO Alliance is on the verge of collapse caused by Canada no less.