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Originally Posted by chankya
Why do Islamic countries seem to have such a hard time with separation of state and religion?
Why can't you have Muslim majority countries which are not officially Islamic states? One of your earlier posts seem to indicate that you think along the same lines. As I understand it, Pakistan was created so that the Muslims of India(not all but the ones who felt threatened. ) would have a land for themselves. That does not contradict a secular state in my mind. Why does it in yours?
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Thnak you for at least attempting to probe the issues in more depth.
You are correct in assuming that if I were to have my ideal world, it would be one where religion had nothin got do with running a country, though it would never approach the extremes of Turkey or France either.
I don't believe that Pakistan was founded to be a theocratic state, but at this point, given everything that has happened, and this "clash of civilizations" narrative that seems to be doing the rounds, I don't really think there is much option but to adopt "moderate Islamic governments". To try and implement anything else would be perceived as selling out to the West, and very easily twisted into rationale for "violent struggle". Attempting moderate Islamic governments serves two purposes:
1. You attempt to provide all ethnic and religious groups with equality under the law by using Islamic tenets that guarantee those rights - an immediate requirement for any nation.
2. Once you are able to establish such governments based on progressive and moderate Islamic law, you can also attempt to move the theologians away from the extreme. The masses will be less susceptible to "Mullah propoganda" and "incitement" (one very important argument of "un Islamic government" will have been taken away) and will gravitate towards the middle.
Its not about being "secular" - its about ensuring "equal rights" - I think that can be accomplished without abandoning religious identities of States.
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Secondly your brother seems to think the west is spinning a large conspiracy the victim of which is to be Islam. Putting aside the validity of this, what is in his mind their end game? Does he dislike the west or only its actions and why? How about India?
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Its not just my brother. I remember as a child listening to my father and his friends discuss the dismemberment of the Soviet Union, and how the next "target"of the West would be Islam. Over and over again I heard this narrative from acquaintances, friends and family - heck, I probably believed in it before I came to the US.
I was in the Middle East in school when the first Gulf War ocurred. I still recollect how the criticizm of Saddam (for invading Kuwait) turned into cheers for his war against an invading "anti Islam" Super Power.
To simply attribute support for AQ, OBL and the Taliban amongst Muslims to "support for terror and an expression of intolerance" is missing the point. The Muslim narrative has been shaped to inculcate a profound distrust of the US for several reasons, many of which you can guess and far too detailed to go into here, and that distrust distorts perceptions of the US and its intentions.