Quote:
Originally Posted by dalem
Well, religion, faith, and morals are all tied together, so I assume mainly that. I've not read Obama's book, so I can only go by Obama's expressions of gratitude to Wright for inspiration and direction. To me that is very telling.
|
He doesn't spend a lot of time on Wright; it's more about his ancestoral and spiritual journey. Expressing gratitude to someone for a service is not tantamount to support of their politicial beliefs. If someone saves my life or gives me comfort when I am in need of it, should I publicly banish him from my life because he said something people don't like or I don't agree with?
Quote:
|
My point is that I wouldn't have sat with my family listening to a man lecture on and off (I assume these particularly assinine outbursts were not Wright's bread and butter sermons) about the evils of AmeriKA and other such nonsense for 20 years, and wouldn't be comfortable, let alone proud, of having people think I viewed him as ANY sort of guide, mentor, or positive example.
|
I would agree with you if the mentoring was polticial, but insofar as we know, it was largely religious.
I don't doubt that a good bit of rancor was expressed toward "the man" and those elements of the American government that seemed to stand in the way of racial equality.
But one has to realize that the disadvantaged--in this case, blacks--are going to speak among themselves against the white-dominated establishment responsible for their position. It is a legitimate subject in black society, in black publications, and surely in black churches. Where can a black person go to escape it? Wouldn't it be better, especially if he is an aspiring politician, to listen and try to discover where the healing can take place?
Quote:
|
Anyone who spends that much time and energy encouraging people to view ridiculous things like skin color as important is a racist in my book.
|
I agree, but we're not black. We haven't experienced what it's like to be denied a job or a seat in a restaurant just because our skin is black. It still goes on subtly. I see it here in Virginia from time to time. No. The whites made skin-color important.
Ever meet a black African here for a visit? Totally different attitude. One on one, just like one on one with a white person. I met blacks in Paris who were completely integrated and without a shred of the black self-consciousness we see here. The American black is uniquely a white creation; but it's changing little by little.
That's what the little engine said.
Quote:
|
Even by your standard, where was the repudiation in this particular case?
|
I thought so. Here's an excerpt from his speech...
Quote:
And yet, it has only been in the last couple of weeks that the discussion of race in this campaign has taken a particularly divisive turn.
On one end of the spectrum, we’ve heard the implication that my candidacy is somehow an exercise in affirmative action; that it’s based solely on the desire of wide-eyed liberals to purchase racial reconciliation on the cheap. On the other end, we’ve heard my former pastor, Reverend Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation; that rightly offend white and black alike.
I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely – just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.
But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren’t simply controversial. They weren’t simply a religious leader’s effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country – a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.
As such, Reverend Wright’s comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems – two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.
|
Seems clear enough to me.
Quote:
|
Great for you. Would you be seen with her at a Code Pink rally? If you were, and someone challenged you, would you think their challenge was reasonable? Have you gone out of your way to list your Code Pink friend as a major inspiration for your life? And most importantly, are you running for President of the U.S. of A.?
|
lol...she invited me and will never again...in fact, she's rather bored with their clownishness. If I had gone and
participated I would expect my friends to question my politics, but I would also expect them to believe me when I said I didn't agree with Code Pick in any way. As for inspiration...her guts are an inspiration to me as is her charity. No, I am not running for prez, as if that makes a difference in the morality side of the issue. As a matter of appearnaces, sure it matters. You're living proof of that. But a candidate can't escape every question of morality. What would people think of him if he abandonned his pastor over political statements that singled out no one in particular? Ferraro got bounced from the Clinton campaign for questionable racial comments; is she no longer Hillary's friend? Would you think better of Hillary of she told Geraldine to never darken her door again? Obama bounced Wright from his campaign. Why do we ask more of him than Hillary?
Quote:
|
I'm only going by the importance placed on the relationship by Obama himself, and the nature of Wright's comments (i.e. basic "America is bad") which is a little different than what you're driving at.
|
The gist I get from what he says is that that
white America was wrong. One way is its treatment of blacks from the beginning of slavery. We can agree on that, can't we?
Quote:
|
I don't accept the relativism you seem to be applying here. Wright's statements are what they are, the words, the emotion, the rhetoric, all there: America is a bad place with bad intent and bad history. That's filth when you are running for President. It just is.
|
Dale! He's not running for president. Obama is, and Obama didn't say those things.
Quote:
|
I don't think my argument is specious at all. It might be wrong, or incomplete, but it's well-grounded and -reasoned.
|
A well reasoned argument cannot be built on questionable assumptions: You condemn Obama on the assumption that Wright is a racist, that he is responsible for what Wright says if he doesn't quit the church, that speaking about past racial discrimination is racist in itself, that Wright hates America...and so forth. And as far as I can see you have made no effort to examine Wright's record over the past 40 years.
However, I agree with you on the central point: Wright said bad things and as he was Obama's pastor and mentor, Obama owed it to his supporters to explain whether he agreed with them.