View Single Post
Old 01-25-2008, 19:52 PM   #58 (permalink)
ZFBoxcar
Moderator
 
Join Date: 08-03-03
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 2,125
Country:
Send a message via MSN to ZFBoxcar
Quote:
I'm confused as to what attacks you refer to as not happening. Common roads in the West Bank were used by Palestinian terrorist to kill Israeli settlers using said roads. That did happen. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
I'm saying that I was under the impression that during the 70s and 80s, the security situation did not merit segregated highways, as far as I know.

Quote:
Strange then that in your map you included a big area fairly close to the green line and contigous with Israeli population patterns in what is to be the Palestinian state. I'm reffering to second and third from the top on the left side
Perhaps the third from the top on the left side shouldn't have been included, but I stand by my assertion that Ariel (and the whole 2nd from the top on the left) hardly counts as a border settlement.

Quote:
As part of the deal for not fighting against Israel in 1948, Arab villages and towns that cooperated are given a very high degree of independence and ruled mostly by councils of local Arab leaders. They got money from the central government, a lot of it, and have all kinds of options on how they can spend it.
FOCUS ON ISSUES
Quote:
According to the Abraham Fund, government funding to Arab and Druse municipalities was less than one-half the funding per person given to Jewish locales in 1994, the latest figures available from the group.


Quote:
Israel wants them to serve, if not in the military, then in national service like religious Jewish women do. It also gets them the same benefits as military service, benefits that they could use, as you yourself have implied. Their leaders are the ones telling them not to serve.
What I meant is that Israel does not compel Israeli Arabs to serve, and until it does they are not in defiance of anything. And refusing to perform national service for a state that doesn't treat you like an equal is hardly grounds for the state to strip of your citizenship, take away your livelihood, seize your property, and force you to leave at gun point. You might respond that Israeli Arabs have a higher standard of living than Arabs in other countries do, and that is true, but that doesn't make discrimination okay.

Quote:
I'm reffering to Chaim Kaufmann's work, particularly an article he published in International Security some 12 odd years ago titled Possible and Impossible Solutions to Ethnic Civil Wars.
I think I read it a couple years ago. Well argued, but I find political science to not exactly be well...a science. There is often more than one way to solve a problem.

Quote:
It is problematic to compare to India, Canada and the US. All of these countries have stable societies.
I would argue that internally (not including the West Bank and Gaza obviously) Israel HAS a relatively stable society. There has never been a coup in Israel, everyone accepts the results of elections, Israeli Arabs have not attempted insurrections, the multi national/ethnic Jewish immigrants from around the world fit in fairly well (although of course there are problems there too), etc.

Quote:
However, they do not have major violent ethnic conflict going on. And once such conflict starts on a massive and violent scale, the only method that has been shown to consistently work is ethnic separation into separate, defensible enclaves where the cost/incentive to defend is relatively low and cost/incentive to attack is relatively high.
But Israel's conflicts are with outside actors, so that isn't really applicable. Separating Israeli Jews from Israeli Arabs does absolutely nothing towards solving the Israeli Arab conflict because it isn't Israeli Jews and Israeli Arabs that are fighting each other.

Quote:
It depends, though it is called ethnic cleansing nonetheless, I'd definitely have a different opinion if this ethnic cleansing was in the form of population transfer or massacre.
Certainly transfer is less bad than massacre, but its still a terrible solution unless voluntary. It is still, as I described earlier: the state stripping you of your citizenship, taking away your livelihood, seizing your property, and forcing you to leave at gun point and arresting or killing you if you refuse to leave your home. Jews have been expelled from European countries countless times. Sure, its not as bad as the Holocaust, but we still consider this to have been barbaric, brutal, and criminal behaviour, as well we should.
ZFBoxcar is online now   Reply With Quote