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Old 01-25-2008, 09:58 AM   #56 (permalink)
ZFBoxcar
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I'll try to find a source. In the meanwhile, I'd like to see some sources that prove you right as well on the order of events.
I'll try as well, but it isn't easy to find articles about attacks that didn't happen (assuming I'm right).

I know this wouldn't fly in an academic debate, but here's Wikipedia

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Between 1969 to September 1970, the PLO, with a passive support from Jordan, fought a war of attrition with Israel. During this time, the PLO launched artillery attacks on the moshavim and kibbutzim of Bet Shean Valley Regional Council as well as attempted to launch attacks by fedayeen on Israeli civilians. These attacks came to an end after the PLO expulsion from Jordan in September 1970.

Further information: Black September in Jordan

After Black September, the PLO and its offshoots waged an international campaign against Israelis. In an attempt to publicize the Palestinian cause, frustrated Palestinian guerrilla groups in Lebanon attacked Israeli "civilian 'targets' like schools, buses and apartment blocks, with occasional attacks abroad—for example, at embassies or airports—and with the hijacking of airliners" (Sela, 97). At the 1972 Summer Olympics in Munich, the Palestinian Black September group, a militant faction of the PLO, carried out the Munich massacre, resulting in the deaths of eleven Israeli Olympic athletes. It was among the first Palestinian attacks to become world news. In October 1974, the Arab nations came together at the Arab Summit Conference in Rabat and adopted their own resolution stating that the PLO was "the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian people" (Sela, 96). Israel and the United States, on the other hand, refused to recognize the PLO as a legitimate organization in the mid-1970s because of the PLO's stance at the time that Israel did not have the right to exist.

Notable events were the Munich Olympics massacre (1972), the hijacking of several civilian airliners, the Savoy Hotel attack, the Zion Square explosive refrigerator and the Coastal Road massacre. During the 1970s and the early 1980s, Israel suffered attacks from PLO bases in Lebanon, such as the Avivim school bus massacre in 1970 and the Maalot massacre in 1974.
The point is the PLO had no presence in Israeli controlled territory, it was in Jordan, got beaten up by Jordan, it was in Lebanon, got beaten by the Israelis, it was in Tunisia, got bombed by the Israelis. And there was no intifada at the time. It just seems from the fact that the PLO was absent from the territories, plus all the attention focused on their international terror campaign, plus the fact that it says attacks on the West Bank ended after Black September, that Palestinian militancy wasn't a big issue in Israeli controlled territory until the first Intifada.

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Depends on which settlers. The border settlements that are fully fledged cities do not cause much hardships for the Palestinians. Sure there are some people who have been cut off from plots of land by the security fence, otherwise not really.
I tend to agree, and if I could have my way those settlements would remain, but I would certainly be open to compensation for the land either in money or corresponding Israeli territory, and we seem to agree on that.

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Israeli Arabs do not contribute to society the same way Jews do, they don't do national service. If they act like its not their country, then maybe it shouldn't be.
Israeli Arabs also don't receive from society the same way Jews do. Funding for their communities in terms of social services is much lower. They also face tough restrictions on land ownership. Besides, it is not Israeli Arabs refusing to contribute, it is the state refusing to conscript them. I am not sure what would happen if this changed, but I do know that Israel decided it probably wasn't a good idea to conscript them. However, the Druze and Bedouin men are conscripted just like Jews (although not Druze and Bedouin women).

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I'm sure you'll retort with the fact that many ultra-orthodox Jews also don't serve. And I think they should do their duty or get out as well.
Similarly, the state refuses to force them. But that question is academic as Israel would never kick them out...Israeli Arabs might not have the luxury of assuming our discussion is purely academic.

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As do a lot of political science scholars who have degrees with more letters than mine.
I know there are, and more letters than mine too. And some are less crude than Samuel Huntington. But there are scholars who disagree with them too. I was trying to think of a way to simply prove the assertion wrong. It isn't easy, as it is quite possible a mono-ethnic state is more stable than a multi-ethnic state. But India, Canada, and the US do it. Hell, Israel does it. The easy, stable way, is not always the best one. I really hope you are wrong because I would rather see Israel disband than commit the unforgivable crime of ethnic cleansing. And I certainly don't want Israel to disband.

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I wonder what your definition of making such a state impossible is?
I've attached a map that generally outlines this. Its not very exact given the tools I was using, and a couple of the ovals extend a bit into Israeli territory, which is accidental, not a desire to give up part of Israel proper.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Settlements2006.jpg (233.4 KB, 55 views)

Last edited by ZFBoxcar : 01-25-2008 at 12:23 PM.
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