Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooth
Thing is, political Islam - Islamism - is what is behind Islamic terrorism (well for the most part, but we are talking about labels). They are the ones that want to overthrow all the Muslim governments, recreate the caliphate, unite the ummah into an Islamic state, subdue the western imperialist dogs, stick the Law according to Allah on every street corner and raise tribute from the nations they can't subdue.
Muslims - spiritual islam aren't interested in any of that (to them Islam is not a poltiical tool). Yet your posts, Dale and Blues are an example of the damage being done to Islam by Islamic Terrorism. You have often (rightly) called for the leaders of the Muslim world to clamp down on the Islamists. Despite what you might think it isn't going to happen by simply yelling at Muslim scholars. Islamism is as confusing and scary to many of them as it is to us.
So, perhaps if the western governments can soften their approach, they can draw the spirituals in. Rather than them forming a third "community" which is what is happening around the world at the moment.
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I am afraid you are missing the woods for the trees.
It is all fine to label Bluesman and Dale as “example of the damage being done to Islam by Islamic Terrorism.”
I have not understood this “You” and “Us” in your post. Indeed, if you are a Moslem, one understands your frustration and anger. It is natural.
But have you, yourself, cared to analyse Islamic terrorism or what you called Political Islam?
For debate’s sake, one could label the Crusades as “Terrorism”, as many do, but then Crusades was a war and not a hit and run, behind the back, spectre like affair and hence is hardly ‘terrorism’ in its true meaning.
Now, in the current context, if Political Islam (to use your term) was upfront and declared it a war and used traditional means to fight upfront rather than in a cowardly manner phantom like, one would not have the type of posts Bluesman and Dalem have written. And one could be counted by standing up and be counted on which side one is! Moslems may be equally perplexed by this evil phenomenon you call "Political Islam", but then they cannot condemn it outright for reasons I will explain below.
However, when the so called “jehad” (truly, it is not a jehad at all but a pulling the wool cloak by scoundrels) is hoary and shadowy and more so, when to “recreate the caliphate, unite the ummah into an Islamic state, subdue the western imperialist dogs, stick the Law according to Allah” is not a feasibility and it totally irrational under the modern conditions, it is natural that reactions of frustration will be there world wide.
It is true that “what you might think it isn't going to happen by simply yelling at Muslim scholars”. But then how is it going to happen and when? It is all the more frustrating that there seem to be no mobility perceived amongst the Moslem world to contain this scourge.
Interestingly enough, this Political Islam is biting back Islamic countries and so it does appear that not only Frankenstein has been uncorked and the perpetrators are now helpless. They are being gripped by the same horrors, who have gone amuck under the cloak of religiosity and falsely supported by the gullible, who have been taken in by these pure and unmitigated cowardly murderers against those you claim to be “imperialist dogs”, amongst others who are not so imperialist a dog.
This “Political Islam” is in no way going to go away in a jiffy. The reason is simple. Moslems are of the opinion that Islam is the ONLY true religion and there is no space for any other religions. It also is of the opinion that Mohammed, is the ideal/ perfect man, and he should be followed in letter and spirit. Therefore, by corollary, the injunctions of the Koran has to be obeyed to the letter and we know what the Koran states about the ummah, kaffirs, Dar ul Islam and Dar ul Harab.
Hence, no pious and true Moslem can condemn what you term as “Political Islam” and what others term as “Islamic Terrorism”. The dream that moderate Moslems or what you term as “scholars” will dare oppose it physically, even though their rationality admits that the chaos that is also visiting them in their own countries, must be stopped, will remain only a dream.
I dislike these words, "Moslem scholars". Sadly, anyone who knows the Koran by rote is a "scholar". How much does he understand is the question!
Islam is not disliked nor are Moslems. It is the apathy to catch the bull by the horn and instead, the spewing of pious platitudes in defence or explanation of the evil that is visiting the non Islamic and Islamic world, is what irks as the world merrily moves from one crisis to another, even in the Islamic state.
Should we await Doomsday and see the world infrastructure be held to ransom and collapse before our eyes?
Not only we shall be destroyed, but also the Moslem world.
Is that what is the solution?
And who is interested in what "spiritual Islam" or "spiritual Christianity" has to say? All one is interested is the physical imprint has on our lives including the chaos that it permeates in the false name of religiosity.
It is time to get the goats and not muddle along with scapegoats.
So, why blame Bluesman and Dale?