SnowLeopard

In the 80's, the general joke about Iowa's and Styx were:

missile hits, send the boatswain to repaint the damage .........
........
UNLESS it goes down the smoke stack......then kiss it good bye.

A tactical computer exercise produced this situation: at the beginning of the war, a Mod Kashin is 1 mile off the starboard bow of the New Jersey. In that exercise, the New Jersey responded with a broadside of all 16 inch guns and after a minute, no more Kashin.

When I relate that problem, the immediate response is how could he get so close? Well, it was a situation where "Five minutes ago, we weren't at war. Our diplomats were rushing for a solution. He could get that close."

So, point one: Are we saying Kirov and Iowa at point blank, five minutes into a war?

Well, if so, while it is nice to think that those two will just punch it out, there was another "problem" which pointed out that right before the war, the AGI will be in the vincity of the carrier to provide the mid course correction for a cruise missile attack.

In point two: A Soviet cruise missile attack was expected to be massive, overwhelming a ship's defenses. While it seems a little bit expensive to use a Kirov as the mid course correction ship for such an attack (ie, that ship, whatever it may be, would probably buy it) ........ I wouldn't put it past them.

Getting back to the Kashin in the New Jersey problem, it is a scenario I return to time and time again. What if you were the Captain of the Kashin at that moment, what would you do?

My answer generally comes down to turning and trying to ram the NJ, firing SAM's in surface to surface mode (there's that smoke stack problem again), raking with the guns, and either turning to head astern on him at the last moment, firing torpedos (Styx when the angle is there) at point blank OR

.....if in heavy seas, completing the ram, maybe being on the crest when he is in the trough. Extreme, of course ...... but when is looking down a broadside on 9 "volkswagens" ............

Might not sink the NJ (unless the Kashin straddles the NJ, maybe) ..... but might bend a prop shaft or two, take it seriously out of the battle.

Does the Kashin have any advantage? Maneuverability and acceleration. His gas turbines to the NJ's boilers.

But this isn't a Kashin, it's a Kirov. Nuclear boilers to oil boilers, so no advantage in acceleration there. The oil fire superheater might or might not give a movement response advantage.

It does have helicopters, something the NJ can handle but doesn't embark with.....and those can used for over the horizon targeting of missiles.

Of course, the Iowa's can tie helos down to the deck, but in salt spray, how long would they be operational? Of course, the Iowa's carried RPV's, but in a jamming environment, the guy with three manned helos might have the upper hand.

But all things being equal ............... I don't expect them to be equal. I would expect the Kirov to win. It had nuclear weapons to use against other ships; the Iowa's didn't. I know the US treaties took off the tactical nuclear wpns in the mid 80's; I don't know if the Soviets agreed to take theirs off as well, but either way, ..................

.....................if push came to shove, I would rather expect them to be carrying some while the US might not.

I don't think that one could decide on the ship to reprogram a nuclear land attack to take on a ship.

Given that, given that armor is no match of a nuclear blast, one on one, given what each ship has, what each ship might do, I would expect the Kirov to win.
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("You are considered a great hero if you negotiate an arms limitation treaty with your opponents ....... but you're a FOOL if you think your enemy will hold to its side of the bargain."--(wtte), a MAD satire on this and that)