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Originally Posted by jimmo
I see your points about single mission ships but "fitted for but not with" is a fact of life in all Navies these days. 25mm guns and CIWS systems are bolted onto ships headed for the Gulf and removed when the ships returns to home/safer waters.
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I'm not sure about this, at least for the US Navy. Firstly, the only class currently having a Bushmaster type cannon I believe is the San Antonio class. Secondly, I've never heard of US Navy ships having their CIWS taken off when they return to port from deployment. I've never seen a single picture of a vessel with that system removed. As our discussion pertains to the US Navy, I don't think that is a valid argument.
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Originally Posted by jimmo
On the Netfires topic, I think they will show up on larger US ships operating in places like the Gulf because they will give those ships precision over-the-horizon capabillites against smaller vessels which I don't think systems like 25mm guns or RAM missiles can give you. My understanding is that Harpoon still has issues in the littoral environment -- maybe when Block III is ready that will change and the missile will again be deployed in numbers on US ships.
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Once again you have changed my mind. I think this would be a useful weapon system for all US surface warships to have. Smaller craft are an increasing threat, and outside of the range of the .50cal and RAM, the Harpoon is just overkill and may not even be targetable. So this should be fitted to existing classes as well as new designs. However, I would like to see it retrofitted into the Mk 41 VLS launcher. It would just make things so much easier. As it is a VERY easy to use and mobile system, I don't see a problem with this, and it should be easily made available in a quad-pack Mk 41 cell canister. (PAM diameter = 7 in. while the currently quad-packed ESSM diameter = 10 in.)
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Originally Posted by jimmo
My reservation about using corvettes in the martitime security, anti-pirate type roles is that I'd be worried they would not have the range, sea-keeping or even crew-comfort needed to carry out those missions without being some sort of logistical burden. Indeed, that was something that bothered me about the LCS concept. The thing was just too short legged and I feared it would be a logistical nightmare.
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I agree. But I'm wondering if you remove the 50 knot speed and 15 foot draft requirements from a LCS type ship, how much design space do you open up for increased endurance? It may be enough, although there are other tradeoffs such as the removal of mission modules and the addition of a small VLS system in my Corvette idea. But your right, a LCS ship that is restricted by endurance is not very useful. The Lockheed LCS design has an endurance of 4300 nm at 20 knots, that is almost on par with a Perry Frigate, so anything in that range would be good for me.
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Originally Posted by jimmo
For the "true" littoral type missions...I am not sure what I'd do. Maybe the original concept of using very small (600 ton) ships with some sort LCS-tender ship is the way to go. Personally, I like Galrahn's pet idea of using large LPD-17 size motherships with swarms of USVs, UAVs, ... Time will tell, but I think we are still in a time of exploring of those ideas.
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Ya, I think you go either way, there is not money enough for both, either a Corvette LCS style surface combatant, or a modified LPD design. The only thing with the LPD is that you are bringing a heck of a lot of boats, SOF, ship crew, and even some helicopters to the littoral fight, when most of the time I believe this will be overkill.
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Originally Posted by jimmo
By the way, I do not want to come off like I am love with the NSC. I don't see it as the "utlimate frigate" or anything. I just see it as a practical choice for where we are right now given the constraints of time, money, politics, ...
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It would be a very practical choice, and would be the cheapest option no doubt. I'm just not sold on the idea...still looking for more info. Uh oh, pretty soon we will have nothing to discuss!