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Originally Posted by zraver
Brigadier that was uncalled for.
Are you claiming the average Pakistani and Indian in 1965 were as technically proficent as the average American or Britisher?
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I think many Indians would take you up on that statement.
Suffice to say that the Indo-Pak battles were cases where neither side gave and took no quarter. The Indian side at least was very well versed with its equipment, and several Pakistanis were quite competent as well.
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The Pattons were defeated for a number of reasons
A- The crews were not skilled in using the ballistic computers
B- they were firing on the Shermans but being fired on by the Centurions
C- They were attacking a dug in enemy
D- the Patton M-47 was junk, and the M-48 while an improvement still had lighter armor and a weaker gun than the Centurion.
E- Pakistani commanders did not show flair or boldness on the attack
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All of these are reasons but I submit the most basic reason was that the Indians were more tactically proficient with their tanks. At the end it just boils down to who was more competent, and the Indians had the edge. It could have been the reverse, if complacency had set in amongst Indian armour.
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Prior to Assal Uttar however the Pattons did great work repulsing the Indian attack in the battle of Chawinda stopping 11 corps advance on Lahore and forcing the Indians over onto the defensive.
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You are citing the bit by Steven Zaloga who relied on Pak accounts. Instead if we see the official '65 history it was far more edgy than the above, and again- it wasnt the equipment as much as tactical blunders on the Indian side.
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As can be seen the Indian tanks were not outclassed by any means. In fact except for speed the Centurion had the important advantages of better armor, better gun, smaller target size. Even the much maligned AMX-13 could destroy a Patton at range.
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The AMX-13 and Sherman were weaker tanks overall, vs the Patton. That has been remarked in countless accounts of the conflict. Cent- no doubt, its either equal or better, depending on what parameters you pick.