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Originally Posted by uss
Never said anything to the contrary.
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My mistake then...it sounded to me like that's what you were getting at.
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Not so much an advantage as if you could carry that same fuel internally.
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In a WVR fight this is completely wrong. If we're talking a DCA CAP, where loiter time is key, its an advantage in that you dont have the aerodynamic drag associated with external stores. But if you're in a maneuvering situation, extra weight that cant be shed (internal vs external fuel) it can hurt you. Of course, if the guy dropping his tanks doesnt have tanker support and he's a long way from home, he's in trouble no matter how the fight ends up.
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Really guys you make it sound as though BVR combat is all about sitting pretty in your fancy fighter and firing shots off into the air. My guess would be that its a lot more complicated than that - as an attacker, you'd probly need to suddenly increase speeds and gain energy to reduce closure after detection of targets, then engage, manouver and then disengage - all at pretty high speeds.
AGain, God forbid, if you find yourself on the receiving end and your RWR/MAWS lights up - you may have to do some fancy manouvering to get out of the situation (break lock/detection) - for example by doing a beaming manouver or even reduce speeds.
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You're right, its a lot more complicated than that. A successful BVR intercept isnt just fancy flying, its precision. Its knowing exactly what you have to do, what you're going to do, and when you're going to do it. And its maintaining situational awareness on everything going on around you while you count off the seconds/miles/switch actuations while the fit hits the shan. Oh, and actually following through with your plan accurately.
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IOW, you don't have to be get into "a turning fight" but still have to maintain a very good ability to turn and burn to execute BVR tactics . If as you point out, the EFTs will be shed, you realize that also means that your ability to reengage will probly be lost and your mission might very well be a failure.
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Getting into a turning fight might not be a bad idea, depending on what you're armed with and what your opponent is armed with. If your opponent has superior BVR capabilities but you own the WVR realm, guess what you want to do: You want to merge with that bastard and make his wife claim his hair, teeth and eyeballs in the morning. You dont want to engage at standoff range, I dont care how much fuel you have.
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My point is, there is a lot of high speed manouvering involved in BVR and EFTs/ordinance will come in the way unless dumped, which is where the Flanker series enjoys a pretty good advantage apart from its huge fuel capacity.
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Yeah, there's high speed maneuvering. But a 50, 60, or 70 mile intercept does not take long. F-15Cs for example (not the most fuel efficient jet on Earth) have MORE than enough gas to make that intercept, even taking a launch and leave shot then turning back in for a merge. If they'd just punched tanks, they're in good shape for a while. Even F-16s have plenty of gas for this. As far as the Eurofighter, I have no idea...I've never worked with them (I'd like to though, that'd be an awesome TDY).
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GOing back to the original context, all of this if you go back a few posts is related to the idea that the ability of the typhoon to supercruise with EFTs is going to be of any direct use in BVR tactics. It was my reply to 'Hello' that Tin Man refuted by pointed out that EFTs/ordinance does not have much impact on the drag/TWR of the typhoon since it can supercruise with them.
My point is quite simple really - in many a BVR type scenario, your ability to supercruise with EFTs is hardly going to matter cause you'll probly have to shed the load. IOW, while such a load might not have a drag/weight penalty while cruising, it could be a bane in combat.
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If the point is that its situationally dependent, you're absolutely right. There are pros and cons to damn near every facet of every aircraft. A capability in one situation could easily become a liability in another. Personally, I think you overstate the value of the Su-30's internal fuel load. On a stealth aircraft it would be a huge benefit. The Eurofighter's RCS would certainly have benefitted from it. But in a 4th gen fighter...yeah, it could be good, but if I were designing it, that wouldnt be my priority. Or even in my top 5.