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Originally Posted by gunnut
So how are you gonna make sure the internet isn't censored in NK?
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Require any company which resides in a UDN nation to NOT censor the internet. If Google doesn't like it, let them move their offices to North Korea. Fortunately it's technically much easier to keep the internet free than it is to censor it. The UDN can also broadcast a free internet in the same way as Radio Free America broadcasts radio.
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And you want to arrest high ranking officials of another nation while they travel? How are you gonna make the free nations cooperate on an issue like this?
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The same way it already works with former Yugoslaviian thugs. Clearly thugs can hide out for a very long time, but just the act of making them wanted men is in itself a punnishment. International courts are a legitimate function of the UN / UDN.
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Saddam was clearly a dictator and frequent violator of human rights. We couldn't even get France, our long time ally, to back us up on the war to arrest him and make sure internet wasn't censored in Iraq.
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One consistant theme in your replies is that such-and-such didn't work under the UN. I have two answers. First, the UN lacks legitimacy in the eyes of many people and nations. That doesn't help. Secondly, just because we fail at a task is not a reason to try. Following the correct course in life is our responsibility regardless of the outcome.
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Democracies don't have similar aims. France is a democracy. It was not our friend in 2003 when we invaded Iraq. Germany is a democracy. It sided with France, Russia, and China, against us and UK. Their aim was pretty much the same, to prevent the US from becoming the absolute dominating power in the world.
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The key is finding common ground. You mentioned France....it was always irritating to me that, of all the speeches by Bush, he never seemed to focus on the financial ties between France and Iraq. It seemed like a real missed opportunity. As for China and Russia, I wouldn't expect them to side with use since they oppose democratic reform. Kick them out.
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Democracy takes a back seat on the world stage. Nations fight for influence and prestige, both among other nations and to their own people. Standing up against the US earns brownie points among nations hostile to US, and their own nationalistic population.
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Yep. That's why we need to change the system.
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In my view, UN is a place where nations talk to each other in an open forum. Nations can bring their disputes to the public and ask for a ruling of public opinion. UN should not have the power to punish anyone or to interfere in internal matters. So when Castro kicks the bucket, nations can talk in the UN and do whatever they want, but ultimately, Cuba decides what happens next. Not us. Not France. Not Russia. Not the UN.
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Should we interfere with the internal affairs of Darfur? Or just allow people to be slaughtered? Should we have stopped Hitler when his internal affairs involved slaughtering the Jews?
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China can vote on the human rights issue as a priviledge of being a permanent member of the SC. This was decided when the UN was formed. The founding nations and the biggest participants in WW2 (winners of course) each got a seat.
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This is an outrageous position, justifying the legitimizing of a dictatorship based on historical grounds. Are you saying you agree with this justification?
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What would you suggest, if your UDN is formed, to include China?
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I've already made it abundantly clear. China should NOT be a member of the UDN. Their "representatives" can watch the proceedings, but only in the back of the room in wobbly metal folding chairs.
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What if China, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, North Korea, Venezuela, Pakistan, Indonesia, and a host of other "not so democratic" nations decided they don't give a damn about the UDN, and formed their own bloc?
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You're repeating yourself. This opportunity already exists for them and is NOT a valid argument against forming the UDN.
So I would still like to hear if you approve of China sitting adjacent to legitimate democracies in your vision of the UN. Are you ok with this?
gary