Quote:
Originally Posted by astralis
exnavyamerican,
really? the mongols had stirrups, their bow, and siege weapons from china. certainly the mongols dusted the polish and the hungarians, and their armor was beyond what rome had.
in any case, the mongols were beaten by the mamelukes, and no one else, really (the japanese hardly count: they really WERE saved by the kamikaze). song china stopped them for a while with mass-produced gunpowder weapons (firebolts, guns, grenades, flamethrowers, rockets, poison-gas rockets, even!), but in the end, even the song went under. and the song were able to raise men far more easily than rome, even in rome's heyday.
meanwhile the romans had their arse handed to them by the huns, the persians, the kelts, carthage (for a while), the parthians, the goths...IIRC rome's main strength was its iron discipline, and once that got replaced with mercenaries...
all hypothetical but for some reason this topic seems to be a fun one  |
A couple of misconceptions.
1- The Mongols after the death of the first two generations were really not all that feirce, that is why the Mamlukes beat them. It is doubtful the Mongols had the staying power to subjagate Rome. great parts of Europe are not conductive to horse archers or cavalry in general. Ther eis a reason infantry dominated ancient Europe.
2- Roman seige engines like ballista onegars, and trebuchets were superior to Chinese manpowered engines. Rome also had superior engineers and massive manpower reserves. It was not until the late imperial age that Roman legions declined in numbers and skill.
3- Rome had superior strategic mobility along the coast. She could move entire armies to threatened cities with impunity. While the Mongols would have controlled the interior, but the bulk of the population and wealth was along the coast.
4- In tems of technology its 6 of one of half dozen of another. No Army before the industrial age was so devoted to war. Romes technology was leathal and very effective. Lorica segmentata was nearly arrow proof even vs Mongol bows at all but the closest ranges. The Scutum was the best sheild in the ancient world, Roman helms and the segmentata made plunging fire all but useless, and the pilum could do duty as a pike or a javalin. And if the gladius ever got into use it would be all over for the horsemen. Given Rome's many victories over horse archers and cavalry based armies she could easily adapt to Mongol tactics over time.