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no, i don't believe either of the two points. coming from taiwan, you may understand that the emotional impact of this issue doesn't resonate as much with me as it would say, to an arab or to an israeli.
i meant it academically.
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Okay, sure. I understand. But then why is it important that the Zionist movement triggered anti-Semitism? By the same token, the Arab invasions of Israel triggered the expulsion/evacuation of Palestinians. Since you are speaking academically and are not placing a value judgment on either thing, I just don't get why its relevant.
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sure, but that only pushes back the question one level: was this done as a response to the creation of israel, or would this have occurred even without the presence of israel? and if the latter, what would be the impetus/reason for suddenly revving up these pogroms?
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The answer is probably the former, although it depends on whether there was no Zionist movement or a failed Zionist movement. If there were would-be Israelis, and they had lost, there would probably still be some residual anti-Semitism.
But again, I don't understand the importance of the question. I don't mean that to brush you off, I just don't understand why that somehow invalidates the idea that: there was a population exchange, much of it horribly forced on both sides, but neither population should be considered refugees anymore.
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again, not trying to find fault but rather, causation. as you say, the divided policies make it hard to find any smooth line of logic here, especially when we're trying to figure out why the jewish exodus in 1948 and not, say, 1945...
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Well there is no doubt that Israel's creation had an incredibly huge amount to do with it. However, the ideas came about before then, an example of which was the Mufti of Jerusalem who sought Hitler's help in wiping the Jews out of Palestine. Although this of course is related to the Zionist movement's existence. Anyways, important as causation is, if we are agreed that Israel's existence (within 1967 borders) is legitimate, and also that Jews in Arab countries did not provoke their own expulsion (even if Israel is considered illegitimate), then the illegitimacy of the acts of expulsion are clear. I know you were looking at this academically rather than the emotionally, but your original post was a response to Stan's equation of the refugee populations, and so I am trying to address both academic and the value judgment questions.