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Originally Posted by gunnut
We bash the spread of islam by the sword TODAY.
We don't bash the spread of islam by the sword 1300 years ago just like we don't bash the spread of Greek culture by the sword 2500 years ago.
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I could be very wrong ,, but based on my understanding here in this forum and many other places, it is the spread of islam by the sword some 1300 years ago that is the common source of discontent. It is aleast such was for the Persians. and infact that was the only major spread by sword ... the Ottoman expanion doesnt really fall into that category, because Ottoman Turks like the Russian Moscovites embrace Islam and Orthodox Christianity to fit their needs,
not other way around. Therefore, regardless of what religion the Ottoman Turks and Russian Moscovites were major imperial expansionist powers, therefore the Ottoman expansionist is more like a Turkish expansion rather then Islamic one. Infact, were the Turks Christians they would have still delivered the death knell that ended the Roman Empire in the East. And were the Russian muslims, they would still aimed to conquer the mythical seat of the world empire. Therefore, the spread of islam by the sword that is bashed by the west, could only be refered to the original sweeps of the armies of the Umar and his descendents that shock the throne of Caesars and Chosroes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnut
Everyone was doing that back then. We have changed. The world has changed. Islam has not. That's why we have a problem with them.
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Well the world is changing century by century. It is getting smaller and closer. That is truth. As far as if Islam has changed or not. I would say it has changed, but I dont know if it changed for better or worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnut
No hypocracy here. We don't spread western culture by the sword today. 3rd world despots are free to butcher their own people. We don't give a rat's ass. See Darfur? We don't care.
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That is fine. But as someone else mentioned here, you spread your ideology by the sword, TODAY. Infact, the Third world despots are the ones that are insolation and are busying butchering their own people, and therefore are mostly content with their little shiny palaces and women.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnut
We care when these people want to spread their violence to us. 9-11 was a wake up call. A-stan and Iraq are retaliations. We would have been perfectly happy to leave those 2 nations alone had we not been attacked.
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No my friend. Iraq was going to invaded anyways regarless of 9/11, as part of the Wolfewitz Doctrine. Infact, Saddam probably dug his own grave when he embrace the power of Euro. As far as Taliban, I cannot quite remember but If memory serves, the US government had a huge issue with them regarding a project involve building a pipeline gaz passing through Afghanistan. I am sure that had 9/11 not happened, there would have been perhapes strong covert operation aimed at overthrowing the Taliban regime by the US.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnut
That's because I was frustrated at how retarded your response was. History in parallel? 150 years? Can't you grasp the comparison? Do I need to spell it out? You of all people should know Persian history and Alexander better than I can.
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Patience, my friend, ... patience ... I am obviously not bright enough grasp the comparison, therefore be patient toward me and dont be too frustrated
The strong manly ones in life are those who understand the meaning of the word patience. Patience means restraining one's inclinations. There are seven emotions: joy, anger, anxiety, love, grief, fear, and hate, and if a man does not give way to these he can be called patient. I am not as strong as I might be, but I have long known and practiced patience. And if my descendants wish to be as I am, they must study patience - Shogun Tokugawa Ieyasu