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Old 08-23-2004, 13:43 PM   #35 (permalink)
Praxus
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: 08-26-03
Posts: 3,237
[quote]If you are talking about the "totalitarian species", then you may as well forget about comparing Caesar to Stalin or Hitler. After the defeat of Pompey, he returned to Rome and issued a pardon to all of his enemies, even those who had sided with Pompey, which led to his eventual assassination by his enemies in the senate. Stalin and Hitler did away with anybody who they even perceived to be their enemies, yet Caesar did not.

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Caesar was not an oppressor of the Roman people, and was in fact the opposite of a Stalin or Hitler. Caesar was a populare, and won the support of the common people.
Every totalitarian dictator wins the support of the "common man". Stalin was loved by his people so was Hitler.

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During his dictatorship, Caesar secured more freedoms and rights for the common people.
What is a "common person". Sounds completly arbitrary and nothing but class warfare rederic.

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Caesar was a proponent, not an opponent, of liberty.
Perhaps some quotes or works of his to qualify this statement? Here are some showing Cicero's dedication to liberty...

The name of peace is sweet, the thing itself is most salutary. But between peace and slavery there is a wide difference. Peace is liberty in tranquillity; slavery is the worst of all evils,--to be repelled, if need be, not only by war, but even by death. But if those deliverers of ours have taken themselves away out of our sight, still they have left behind the example of their conduct. They have done what no one else had done. Brutus pursued Tarquinius with war; who was a king when it was lawful for a king to exist in Rome. Spurius Cassius, Spurius. Maelius, and Marcus. Manlius were all slain because they were suspected of aiming at regal power. These are the first men who have ever ventured to attack, sword in hand, a man who was not aiming at regal power, but actually reigning. And their action is not only of itself a glorious and godlike exploit, but it is also one put forth for our imitation; especially since by it they have acquired such glory as appears hardly to be bounded by heaven itself

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Do you never think on these things? And do you not understand that it is enough for brave men to have learned how noble a thing it is as to the act, how grateful it is as to the benefit done, how glorious as to the fame acquired, to slay a tyrant? When men could not bear him, do you think they will bear you? Believe me, the time will come when men will race with one another to do this deed, and when no one will wait for the tardy arrival of an opportunity.

Decide on your conduct. As to mine, I myself will declare what that shall be. I defended the republic as a young man, I will not abandon it now that I am old. I scorned the sword of Catiline, I will not quail before yours. No, I will rather cheerfully expose my own person, if the liberty of the city can her restored by my death.
May the indignation of the Roman people at last bring forth what it has been so long laboring with. In truth, if twenty years ago in this very temple I asserted that death could not come prematurely upon a man of consular rank, with how much more truth must I now say the same of an old man? To me, indeed, O conscript fathers, death is now even desirable, after all the honors which I have gained, and the deeds which I have done. I only pray for these two things: one, that dying I may leave the Roman people free. No greater boon than this can be granted me by the immortal gods. The other, that every one may meet with a fate suitable to his deserts and conduct toward the republic.


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As you said yourself, the ends never justify the means. Or do they sometimes justify the means?
What the hell are you talking about? Are you so stuck up in trying to catch me in a contradiction that you ignore everything I write?

I have never contradicted myself on this issue. What I am saying is that declaring oneself a dictator is not wrong (the means). It is no more wrong then establishing a constitutional republic. What matters is that they respect and protect the rights of their citizens.

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You err in assuming Caesar was totalitarian in the first place, as I have already amply explained.

If you want to compare Caesar with somebody, Pompey would be a far better candidate.
All you have been reciting is post-modernist/marxist dogma. You havn't amply explained anything. You keep making baseless rants about how Caeser helepd the "common man" without backing it up with facts. You don't even go as far as to explain what the "common man" was.
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