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Swift Sword · 01-19-2007, 13:26 PM

Hi Guys,

On the pistol thing:

I do not have the benefit of military experience, but I carried weapons in various capacities for a decade and held the one handed gun in high regard even when I was armed with a shotgun, carbine or SMG.

In my experience, a two handed American with a one handed weapon is never a bad thing.

Having talked to numerous vets and active service personnel ranging from WW2 through OIF, the bulk of them were glad to have pistols and/or revolvers at their disposal and would procure them from the enemy if neccessary.

I can undestand the complaints about the bulkiness of service pistols for I personally consider the M9, good as it is, to be a bit of a boat anchor.

A few cases of when pistols came in real handy in a military context come to mind:

1. A Vietnam Marine once told me how he was breifly captured.

His assailants jumped him, got his rifle, bayonet and grenades. They sat on him for a minute but their quick pat down missed a Walther PP he had procured locally and was carrying in a pocket.

When his unit counter attacked, his captors blinked and what one would expect from a U.S. Marine transpired: he used the hidden pistol to shoot at them at close range and make good his escape.

2. I heard (have no citation) that in ODS a pilot who was shot down was captured and marched off by a single Iraqi soldier while his mate circled over head.

From what I understand, the pilot was unarmed. Seems to me a man with a modest amount of training and even a small handgun could have solved this problem and waited under air cover for a ride home.

3. Another Vietnam anecdote: a doctor of my aquaintance got his start in medicine as a helicopter pilot flying casualties to aid stations or whatever they were called.

On one occassion, the crew cheif was busy helping load litter cases when a woman ran up to throw what turned out to be a land mine into the helicopter.

The pilot in question drew a revolver and shot the woman dead at eight paces with two Remington .38 hollow points.

There was a CAR-15 in the cockpit but nobody had a chance to grab it because they were all busy with the wounded and other sundry chores.

In my personal experience, having a handgun available translates into having a backup band in the event there are unarmed people about.

One fine day in a past life (not in a military context BUT tactics is tactics just the same), I was riding in the back of a coupe with an unarmed driver and an armed passenger in the front seat. We were set on from two sides.

Being pent up in the back seat, I unholstered and handed the driver my cocked and locked Browning High Power while D. bailed out the right side with his weapon (in the meantime, I was unlimbering a Winchester 12 ga. pump racked behind the backseat ).

While I was exiting the passenger's side of the vehicle to join the fight, the driver who was moments before unarmed discharged two rounds: he was set upon by a troglydyte with a baseball bat.

Because someone had a pistol available to arm him, the driver was not maimed or killed.

I guess to my mind the arguments for having a pistol in a military context run as follows:

1. in the event primary goes down for whatever reason you have something that shoots further than a knife, further than you can throw a grenade and gives a point target option that a grenade does not;

2. confined spaces, prisoner handling, need other hand free for whatever reason;

3. having a pistol and the knowledge to use it can increase morale and confidence in the face of the unknown;

4. history is full of incidents where soldiers have used their pistols and revolvers to solve immediate problems which were otherwise not satisfactorily resolvable by other means.

5. they count as extra weapons which can be distributed to the man on your left or right if they come up empty handed for whatever reason.

Training and experience of WAB military proffesionals duly noted, I am in favor of pistols for the troops if they want them and can prove basic profficiency.

If for some reason I am pressed into the war, I will be carrying a pistol or revolver and I will not be too particular about make, model or method of procurement.

I know how to use them and have needed them before.

Have a nice weekend,

William

01-19-2007, 13:26 PM	#43 (permalink)
Swift Sword *Senior Contributor* Join Date: 10-23-05 Location: Carl Perkins' Cadillac Posts: 772	Hi Guys, On the pistol thing: I do not have the benefit of military experience, but I carried weapons in various capacities for a decade and held the one handed gun in high regard even when I was armed with a shotgun, carbine or SMG. In my experience, a two handed American with a one handed weapon is never a bad thing. Having talked to numerous vets and active service personnel ranging from WW2 through OIF, the bulk of them were glad to have pistols and/or revolvers at their disposal and would procure them from the enemy if neccessary. I can undestand the complaints about the bulkiness of service pistols for I personally consider the M9, good as it is, to be a bit of a boat anchor. A few cases of when pistols came in real handy in a military context come to mind: 1. A Vietnam Marine once told me how he was breifly captured. His assailants jumped him, got his rifle, bayonet and grenades. They sat on him for a minute but their quick pat down missed a Walther PP he had procured locally and was carrying in a pocket. When his unit counter attacked, his captors blinked and what one would expect from a U.S. Marine transpired: he used the hidden pistol to shoot at them at close range and make good his escape. 2. I heard (have no citation) that in ODS a pilot who was shot down was captured and marched off by a single Iraqi soldier while his mate circled over head. From what I understand, the pilot was unarmed. Seems to me a man with a modest amount of training and even a small handgun could have solved this problem and waited under air cover for a ride home. 3. Another Vietnam anecdote: a doctor of my aquaintance got his start in medicine as a helicopter pilot flying casualties to aid stations or whatever they were called. On one occassion, the crew cheif was busy helping load litter cases when a woman ran up to throw what turned out to be a land mine into the helicopter. The pilot in question drew a revolver and shot the woman dead at eight paces with two Remington .38 hollow points. There was a CAR-15 in the cockpit but nobody had a chance to grab it because they were all busy with the wounded and other sundry chores. In my personal experience, having a handgun available translates into having a backup band in the event there are unarmed people about. One fine day in a past life (not in a military context BUT tactics is tactics just the same), I was riding in the back of a coupe with an unarmed driver and an armed passenger in the front seat. We were set on from two sides. Being pent up in the back seat, I unholstered and handed the driver my cocked and locked Browning High Power while D. bailed out the right side with his weapon (in the meantime, I was unlimbering a Winchester 12 ga. pump racked behind the backseat ). While I was exiting the passenger's side of the vehicle to join the fight, the driver who was moments before unarmed discharged two rounds: he was set upon by a troglydyte with a baseball bat. Because someone had a pistol available to arm him, the driver was not maimed or killed. I guess to my mind the arguments for having a pistol in a military context run as follows: 1. in the event primary goes down for whatever reason you have something that shoots further than a knife, further than you can throw a grenade and gives a point target option that a grenade does not; 2. confined spaces, prisoner handling, need other hand free for whatever reason; 3. having a pistol and the knowledge to use it can increase morale and confidence in the face of the unknown; 4. history is full of incidents where soldiers have used their pistols and revolvers to solve immediate problems which were otherwise not satisfactorily resolvable by other means. 5. they count as extra weapons which can be distributed to the man on your left or right if they come up empty handed for whatever reason. Training and experience of WAB military proffesionals duly noted, I am in favor of pistols for the troops if they want them and can prove basic profficiency. If for some reason I am pressed into the war, I will be carrying a pistol or revolver and I will not be too particular about make, model or method of procurement. I know how to use them and have needed them before. Have a nice weekend, William __________________ Pharoh was pimp but now he is dead. What are you going to do today?