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durtyburd · 01-17-2007, 07:30 AM

A while back, I read an interesting article about the Picts having close genetic links to people in southwest Spain and southern Portugal. Apparently, the Tartessian and Iberian cultures might have been closely related to their northern Celt neighbors in the distant past. This wouldn't be surprising considering the coastal seafaring nature of the ancient Celts and Tartessian civilization (a lost civilization with a writing system that will never be deciphered).

Just a little bit of trivia: Some believe that the Tartessian civilization is referred to as "Tarshish" in the Old Testament. Tarshish provided precious metals to the Hittites as well as to the Isrealites during those times. Jonah tried to travel to Tarshish in the southern Iberian peninsula. According to myth, Jonah's intent to travel to Tarshish angered God because of the hedonistic nature of Tartessian culture, which is why he was swallowed by a whale. Apparently, however, not everyone was swallowed by a whale because by the time that the Carthagenians came to dominate the southern portions of the Iberian peninsula, there was already a vibrant Jewish community established.

According to some legends, the Tartessian civilization was centered in one large and wealthy city located on the Guadalquivir river. It was either located directly on the coastal delta of the river or a few miles upriver. The civilization collapsed after an earthquake sunk the city beneath the waters and mud of the Guadalquivir river delta. It goes to show that it's generally a bad idea to place the center of your civilization on a sandy river delta in an earthquake prone region. The Pheonicians and later the Cartheginians stepped in to fill the void after this collapse.

Some parts of Tartessian culture persisted into Roman times. The heirs of the Tartessian civilization were known as Turditani in Roman times. The Romans regarded the Turditani as a frustratingly stubborn people but held the Turdetani's mining talents in high esteem.

There is some speculation that the fall of Tartessus is what caused the Atlantis myth of Greek lore. It would make sense. If the city was located on an island of silt and sand on the Guadalquivir river delta and an earthquake made it sink into the water, then it fits the description of Atlantis. According to legend, Atlantis was an island just beyond the Pillars of Hercules (the straights of Gibraltar). The Guadalquivir empties into the ocean, conveniently, just west of the straights of Gibraltar.

Not much remains of the Tartessian civilization. Tablets containing the undecipherable Tartessian script have been found throughout southern Spain and Portugal, but no one can make heads or tails of what the inscriptions mean. A bust known as the "Lady of Elche" is the best preserved piece of Tartessian art. It is a bust of a lady (presumably a lady of high social status). They style of dress apparent on the bust is very alien to other western Mediterranean cultures and has many oriental features. The mines where the Tartessians mined copper and silver are still there, however. In fact, they're still being mined to this day. There's not much of scholarly value in the mines, however, since they have been mined continuously for a couple thousand years.

The capital of the Tartessians will probably never be found, unfortunately. The Guadalquivir has been depositing sediments in the delta for a long time. On top of that, there have been many major earthquakes which have actually moved the river considerably. The search area for the city is therefore absolutely huge and consists of very deep sediments deposited by the river.

Many people have attempted to find the city buried in the mud, but they have all failed.

Perhaps advances in ground penetrating radar will help to solve the mystery of the Tartessians, but I'm not holding my breath for it.

01-17-2007, 07:30 AM	#19 (permalink)
durtyburd Regular Join Date: 10-07-06 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 111	A while back, I read an interesting article about the Picts having close genetic links to people in southwest Spain and southern Portugal. Apparently, the Tartessian and Iberian cultures might have been closely related to their northern Celt neighbors in the distant past. This wouldn't be surprising considering the coastal seafaring nature of the ancient Celts and Tartessian civilization (a lost civilization with a writing system that will never be deciphered). Just a little bit of trivia: Some believe that the Tartessian civilization is referred to as "Tarshish" in the Old Testament. Tarshish provided precious metals to the Hittites as well as to the Isrealites during those times. Jonah tried to travel to Tarshish in the southern Iberian peninsula. According to myth, Jonah's intent to travel to Tarshish angered God because of the hedonistic nature of Tartessian culture, which is why he was swallowed by a whale. Apparently, however, not everyone was swallowed by a whale because by the time that the Carthagenians came to dominate the southern portions of the Iberian peninsula, there was already a vibrant Jewish community established. According to some legends, the Tartessian civilization was centered in one large and wealthy city located on the Guadalquivir river. It was either located directly on the coastal delta of the river or a few miles upriver. The civilization collapsed after an earthquake sunk the city beneath the waters and mud of the Guadalquivir river delta. It goes to show that it's generally a bad idea to place the center of your civilization on a sandy river delta in an earthquake prone region. The Pheonicians and later the Cartheginians stepped in to fill the void after this collapse. Some parts of Tartessian culture persisted into Roman times. The heirs of the Tartessian civilization were known as Turditani in Roman times. The Romans regarded the Turditani as a frustratingly stubborn people but held the Turdetani's mining talents in high esteem. There is some speculation that the fall of Tartessus is what caused the Atlantis myth of Greek lore. It would make sense. If the city was located on an island of silt and sand on the Guadalquivir river delta and an earthquake made it sink into the water, then it fits the description of Atlantis. According to legend, Atlantis was an island just beyond the Pillars of Hercules (the straights of Gibraltar). The Guadalquivir empties into the ocean, conveniently, just west of the straights of Gibraltar. Not much remains of the Tartessian civilization. Tablets containing the undecipherable Tartessian script have been found throughout southern Spain and Portugal, but no one can make heads or tails of what the inscriptions mean. A bust known as the "Lady of Elche" is the best preserved piece of Tartessian art. It is a bust of a lady (presumably a lady of high social status). They style of dress apparent on the bust is very alien to other western Mediterranean cultures and has many oriental features. The mines where the Tartessians mined copper and silver are still there, however. In fact, they're still being mined to this day. There's not much of scholarly value in the mines, however, since they have been mined continuously for a couple thousand years. The capital of the Tartessians will probably never be found, unfortunately. The Guadalquivir has been depositing sediments in the delta for a long time. On top of that, there have been many major earthquakes which have actually moved the river considerably. The search area for the city is therefore absolutely huge and consists of very deep sediments deposited by the river. Many people have attempted to find the city buried in the mud, but they have all failed. Perhaps advances in ground penetrating radar will help to solve the mystery of the Tartessians, but I'm not holding my breath for it. Last edited by durtyburd : 01-17-2007 at 07:33 AM.