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rickusn · 01-11-2007, 18:54 PM

"This sort of thing is happening waay too often. Something is wrong."

Oh BS. You only hear about it now instantly. Among other factors.

Heres a couple of interesting stories both plausible. But Ill reserve judgement until we see a final report.:

http://content.hamptonroads.com/stor...=77484&tref=po

Navy says speed of tanker sucked submarine up to surface

The Mogamigawa, a 1,100-foot-long merchant ship displacing 300,000 tons. AP PHOTO/KAWASAKI KISEN KAISHA LTD.

By JACK DORSEY, The Virginian-Pilot
© January 10, 2007

NORFOLK - The submarine Newport News was submerged and leaving the Persian Gulf when a mammoth Japanese oil tanker passed overhead at a high speed, creating a sucking effect that made the sub rise and hit the ship, the Navy said Tuesday.

That is the preliminary finding of Monday's collision between the Norfolk-based submarine and the Mogamigawa, a 1,100-foot-long merchant ship displacing 300,000 tons.

Both were southbound, crossing the busy and narrow Strait of Hormuz while heading into the Arabian Sea.

"As the ship passed over the sub, it ended up sucking the submarine into it," said Lt. Cmdr. Chris Loundermon, a spokesman for Submarine Force in Norfolk.

"It is a principle called the venturi effect," he said.

The Mogamigawa, built in 2001, is a super tanker that displaces 300,000 tons of water - three times the amount of water of a modern aircraft carrier.

The Newport News, a Los Angeles-class submarine, displaces 6,900 tons of water.

"This was a very, very large ship moving at higher speed," Loundermon said.

No one was injured aboard either ship, the Navy said, and damage to both vessels is relatively minor.

The collision was the fifth involving a U.S. submarine in the past six years, according to news records.

Four of those incidents involved other surface ships. In one case, a submarine hit an undersea mountain.

The Newport News collided with the Mogamigawa while submerged in the Arabian Sea about 10:30 p.m. local time, the Navy said.

Afterward, it was going to Bahrain to check for further damage.

"She is headed to port right now," Cmdr. Kevin Aandahl, a spokesman for the U.S. Naval Forces Central Command in Bahrain, said late Tuesday from Bahrain.

Damage to the Norfolk-based Newport News appears to be confined to the bow, he said. The sail, or mast, and the sub's nuclear reactor were unharmed, he said.

Aand ahl said he could not discuss details such as the speed or depth of the submarine at the time of the impact.

Aandahl emphasized that the Newport News was not surfacing at the time, as was reported earlier by CNN.

The Strait of Hormuz separates the Arabian Gulf from the Gulf of Oman and the North Arabian Sea. It is about 40 miles wide - 34 miles wide at its narrowest point, according to globalsecurity.org.

The strait, which is the world's most important oil chokepoint, has channels for inbound and outbound tanker traffic that are 2 miles wide, as well as a buffer zone of 2 miles, according to the Web site.

The Newport News left Norfolk along with the aircraft carrier Eisenhower strike group in October for a six-month deployment to the Middle East.

The Mogamigawa was traveling from the Persian Gulf to Singapore with a crew of eight Japanese members and 16 Filipino members. The submarine has a crew of about 130.

The other four submarine collisions in the past six years are:

Sept. 5, 2005: The fast-attack submarine Philadelphia and the Turkish merchant ship Aysen met about 2 a.m., 30 miles off the coast of Bahrain, resulting in minor damage.

The Aysen was attempting to overtake the submarine and approached the Philadelphia from the sub's port quarter.

The ship damaged the sub's propeller, the sailplanes, a periscope and dented the Philadelphia's hull.

Jan. 9, 2005: The attack submarine San Francisco, traveling at a high speed near Guam, struck an undersea mountain, killing one crew man and injuring 24.

Nov. 2, 2002: The fast-attack submarine Oklahoma City struck a Norwegian merchant ship in the western Mediterranean Sea, damaging the sub's sail and periscope but causing no injuries.

Its commanding officer was relieved of command.

Feb. 9, 2001: The attack submarine Greenville ran into the Japanese fishing and training vessel Ehime Maru off the coast of Hawaii while performing an emergency surfacing maneuver during a demonstration cruise for civilian visitors. Nine crew members on the Japanese ship died.

The National Transportation Safety Board concluded that collision was caused by inadequate communication among senior members of the crew.

The commanding officer was relieved of command and retired.

Reach Jack Dorsey at (757) 446-2284 or jack.dorsey@pilotonline.com.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/new...ote=1&p=325367

World
Poor sonar conditions possible cause of U.S. submarine collision
15:28 | 10/ 01/ 2007

MOSCOW, January 10 (RIA Novosti) - Poor sonar conditions might have contributed to a collision between a U.S. nuclear-powered submarine and a Japanese tanker in the Arabian Sea, a Russian naval expert said Wednesday.

The USS Newport News fast-attack submarine collided Monday night with the Japanese oil tanker Mogamigawa near the Strait of Hormuz, which separates Iran from the United Arab Emirates.

Both vessels suffered minor damage but no injuries, fuel spills or radiation were reported.

"The crew of the Newport News most probably fell victim to poor sonar conditions in the area," Gennady Illarionov, a former submariner, said in an exclusive interview with RIA Novosti.

"The sonar operator apparently did not hear the noise produced by the Japanese tanker, because it is fairly quiet," the expert said. "It [the tanker] has a propulsion plant located at the stern, and the collision occurred in the middle of the hull, about 200 meters (650 feet) from the rear of the ship."

"Such occurrences are rather frequent, because at a depth of 40 meters (130 feet) in poor weather there are strong wind waves that interfere with the acoustic field and could prevent a sonar operator from hearing the noise of a nearby target," Illarionov said.

He said the captain of the U.S. submarine was most likely to blame for the collision, because it occurred while the submarine was surfacing and the Japanese vessel was simply maintaining its course in the narrow strait.

"Surfacing is one of the most complicated maneuvers for submariners, especially from a depth of 40 meters to the surface," Illarionov said. "It is the most dangerous stretch, and that is when the two vessels collided."

The expert also said that 40 meters is a fixed depth in preparation for surfacing. At that depth, a collision is impossible and it allows a sonar operator to scan the acoustic horizon before reporting to the captain, who subsequently makes a decision to surface.

Following the captain's orders, the crew raises the vessel to periscope depth, and the captain is supposed to visually scan the horizon and make sure it is clear before finally surfacing.

Illarionov said the captain should have received the sonar operator's report before making the decision to surface. Otherwise, it would have been a violation of strict procedures.

In addition, the expert said, the Newport News, a Los Angeles class nuclear submarine, is vulnerable to sea collisions because of the design of its hull.

"These submarines have a single-hull structure," Illarionov said. "And any collision with another vessel can lead to serious consequences for them [the submarines]."

"I think the Americans were simply lucky because it was apparently not a direct hit," he said, adding that despite the 50-millimeter thickness of the hull, the impact should have left a deep dent in the super-hard steel.

The USS Newport News (SSN 750) has been operating as part of a U.S. Navy carrier strike group patrolling the Persian Gulf and nearby seas. It has a crew of 127.

Another Russian naval expert said Tuesday it was the captain of the submarine who was responsible for the collision.

"The incident involving the American submarine and the Japanese tanker in the Arabian Sea was due to intensive shipping in the region, which demands a high level of caution from captains of vessels, in particular from captains of nuclear submarines," the expert said.

"Most likely, the captain of the American vessel inadequately assessed the underwater and surface situation while the submarine was surfacing," he said.

The collision is not the first between a U.S. submarine and a Japanese vessel. In February 2001, a U.S. nuclear submarine, the Greenville, ran into and sank a Japanese fishing vessel near Hawaii, killing all nine people on board the Japanese boat.

01-11-2007, 18:54 PM	#5 (permalink)
rickusn *Military Professional* Join Date: 08-09-03 Posts: 1,317	"This sort of thing is happening waay too often. Something is wrong." Oh BS. You only hear about it now instantly. Among other factors. Heres a couple of interesting stories both plausible. But Ill reserve judgement until we see a final report.: http://content.hamptonroads.com/stor...=77484&tref=po Navy says speed of tanker sucked submarine up to surface The Mogamigawa, a 1,100-foot-long merchant ship displacing 300,000 tons. AP PHOTO/KAWASAKI KISEN KAISHA LTD. By JACK DORSEY, The Virginian-Pilot © January 10, 2007 NORFOLK - The submarine Newport News was submerged and leaving the Persian Gulf when a mammoth Japanese oil tanker passed overhead at a high speed, creating a sucking effect that made the sub rise and hit the ship, the Navy said Tuesday. That is the preliminary finding of Monday's collision between the Norfolk-based submarine and the Mogamigawa, a 1,100-foot-long merchant ship displacing 300,000 tons. Both were southbound, crossing the busy and narrow Strait of Hormuz while heading into the Arabian Sea. "As the ship passed over the sub, it ended up sucking the submarine into it," said Lt. Cmdr. Chris Loundermon, a spokesman for Submarine Force in Norfolk. "It is a principle called the venturi effect," he said. The Mogamigawa, built in 2001, is a super tanker that displaces 300,000 tons of water - three times the amount of water of a modern aircraft carrier. The Newport News, a Los Angeles-class submarine, displaces 6,900 tons of water. "This was a very, very large ship moving at higher speed," Loundermon said. No one was injured aboard either ship, the Navy said, and damage to both vessels is relatively minor. The collision was the fifth involving a U.S. submarine in the past six years, according to news records. Four of those incidents involved other surface ships. In one case, a submarine hit an undersea mountain. The Newport News collided with the Mogamigawa while submerged in the Arabian Sea about 10:30 p.m. local time, the Navy said. Afterward, it was going to Bahrain to check for further damage. "She is headed to port right now," Cmdr. Kevin Aandahl, a spokesman for the U.S. Naval Forces Central Command in Bahrain, said late Tuesday from Bahrain. Damage to the Norfolk-based Newport News appears to be confined to the bow, he said. The sail, or mast, and the sub's nuclear reactor were unharmed, he said. Aand ahl said he could not discuss details such as the speed or depth of the submarine at the time of the impact. Aandahl emphasized that the Newport News was not surfacing at the time, as was reported earlier by CNN. The Strait of Hormuz separates the Arabian Gulf from the Gulf of Oman and the North Arabian Sea. It is about 40 miles wide - 34 miles wide at its narrowest point, according to globalsecurity.org. The strait, which is the world's most important oil chokepoint, has channels for inbound and outbound tanker traffic that are 2 miles wide, as well as a buffer zone of 2 miles, according to the Web site. The Newport News left Norfolk along with the aircraft carrier Eisenhower strike group in October for a six-month deployment to the Middle East. The Mogamigawa was traveling from the Persian Gulf to Singapore with a crew of eight Japanese members and 16 Filipino members. The submarine has a crew of about 130. The other four submarine collisions in the past six years are: Sept. 5, 2005: The fast-attack submarine Philadelphia and the Turkish merchant ship Aysen met about 2 a.m., 30 miles off the coast of Bahrain, resulting in minor damage. The Aysen was attempting to overtake the submarine and approached the Philadelphia from the sub's port quarter. The ship damaged the sub's propeller, the sailplanes, a periscope and dented the Philadelphia's hull. Jan. 9, 2005: The attack submarine San Francisco, traveling at a high speed near Guam, struck an undersea mountain, killing one crew man and injuring 24. Nov. 2, 2002: The fast-attack submarine Oklahoma City struck a Norwegian merchant ship in the western Mediterranean Sea, damaging the sub's sail and periscope but causing no injuries. Its commanding officer was relieved of command. Feb. 9, 2001: The attack submarine Greenville ran into the Japanese fishing and training vessel Ehime Maru off the coast of Hawaii while performing an emergency surfacing maneuver during a demonstration cruise for civilian visitors. Nine crew members on the Japanese ship died. The National Transportation Safety Board concluded that collision was caused by inadequate communication among senior members of the crew. The commanding officer was relieved of command and retired. Reach Jack Dorsey at (757) 446-2284 or jack.dorsey@pilotonline.com. http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/new...ote=1&p=325367 World Poor sonar conditions possible cause of U.S. submarine collision 15:28 \| 10/ 01/ 2007 MOSCOW, January 10 (RIA Novosti) - Poor sonar conditions might have contributed to a collision between a U.S. nuclear-powered submarine and a Japanese tanker in the Arabian Sea, a Russian naval expert said Wednesday. The USS Newport News fast-attack submarine collided Monday night with the Japanese oil tanker Mogamigawa near the Strait of Hormuz, which separates Iran from the United Arab Emirates. Both vessels suffered minor damage but no injuries, fuel spills or radiation were reported. "The crew of the Newport News most probably fell victim to poor sonar conditions in the area," Gennady Illarionov, a former submariner, said in an exclusive interview with RIA Novosti. "The sonar operator apparently did not hear the noise produced by the Japanese tanker, because it is fairly quiet," the expert said. "It [the tanker] has a propulsion plant located at the stern, and the collision occurred in the middle of the hull, about 200 meters (650 feet) from the rear of the ship." "Such occurrences are rather frequent, because at a depth of 40 meters (130 feet) in poor weather there are strong wind waves that interfere with the acoustic field and could prevent a sonar operator from hearing the noise of a nearby target," Illarionov said. He said the captain of the U.S. submarine was most likely to blame for the collision, because it occurred while the submarine was surfacing and the Japanese vessel was simply maintaining its course in the narrow strait. "Surfacing is one of the most complicated maneuvers for submariners, especially from a depth of 40 meters to the surface," Illarionov said. "It is the most dangerous stretch, and that is when the two vessels collided." The expert also said that 40 meters is a fixed depth in preparation for surfacing. At that depth, a collision is impossible and it allows a sonar operator to scan the acoustic horizon before reporting to the captain, who subsequently makes a decision to surface. Following the captain's orders, the crew raises the vessel to periscope depth, and the captain is supposed to visually scan the horizon and make sure it is clear before finally surfacing. Illarionov said the captain should have received the sonar operator's report before making the decision to surface. Otherwise, it would have been a violation of strict procedures. In addition, the expert said, the Newport News, a Los Angeles class nuclear submarine, is vulnerable to sea collisions because of the design of its hull. "These submarines have a single-hull structure," Illarionov said. "And any collision with another vessel can lead to serious consequences for them [the submarines]." "I think the Americans were simply lucky because it was apparently not a direct hit," he said, adding that despite the 50-millimeter thickness of the hull, the impact should have left a deep dent in the super-hard steel. The USS Newport News (SSN 750) has been operating as part of a U.S. Navy carrier strike group patrolling the Persian Gulf and nearby seas. It has a crew of 127. Another Russian naval expert said Tuesday it was the captain of the submarine who was responsible for the collision. "The incident involving the American submarine and the Japanese tanker in the Arabian Sea was due to intensive shipping in the region, which demands a high level of caution from captains of vessels, in particular from captains of nuclear submarines," the expert said. "Most likely, the captain of the American vessel inadequately assessed the underwater and surface situation while the submarine was surfacing," he said. The collision is not the first between a U.S. submarine and a Japanese vessel. In February 2001, a U.S. nuclear submarine, the Greenville, ran into and sank a Japanese fishing vessel near Hawaii, killing all nine people on board the Japanese boat. Last edited by rickusn : 01-11-2007 at 18:56 PM.